[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

:lool:

Why does the media try to stir up shit with these guys? You would think after the speech/press conference Obama gave last night that people would begin to take this mess a little more seriously.

If the media can manage to convince the Republicans that Obama is throwing them under the bus, which he tiptoed around as best as he could last night, then there is no telling what this stimulus package could drag into.

[WoolyGoat]

we're on the verge of CATASTROPHE!!!111111!!1!!

[cLaY]

:lool:

Why does the media try to stir up shit with these guys? You would think after the speech/press conference Obama gave last night that people would begin to take this mess a little more seriously.

If the media can manage to convince the Republicans that Obama is throwing them under the bus, which he tiptoed around as best as he could last night, then there is no telling what this stimulus package could drag into.

If you got that headline from Foxnews, which I think you did because I saw the same, it's pretty obvious the Right Leaning Media can resort to nothing more than smear tactics and fear mongering. It's what they do best. Conservatives are some of the most closed minded people on the planet.

[BIRD33]

we're on the verge of CATASTROPHE!!!111111!!1!!

What would you categorize the total meltdown of our economy and the highest unemployment rate since the 70's as?

I hate to sound like a broken record but where were you when your last president was hyping up the possibility of a Nuke being dropped on us by Saddam which all experts at the time said was not remotely possible?

[WoolyGoat]

of course we're on the verge of catastrophe. everyone in the country knows how serious things are.

that doesn't mean the leader of the country should be promoting fear.

[BIRD33]

of course we're on the verge of catastrophe. everyone in the country knows how serious things are.

that doesn't mean the leader of the country should be promoting fear.

I believe he said if we wait we risk catastrophe.The limbaughs of the world are the ones saying he's promoting fear.He's being honest.

[WoolyGoat]

I think what he said was "hurry up and pass our bill before anyone has enough time to figure out what exactly is in it."

[BIRD33]

And that explanation is why your party is a joke.Never miss an opportunity to make shit up to make your case.

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

I believe he said if we wait we risk catastrophe.The limbaughs of the world are the ones saying he's promoting fear.He's being honest.

And I think what Bush was saying about Saddam was that "if we wait we risk catastrophe".

So, its okay for Obama to promote fear, but you were always accusing Bush of doing it for the wrong reasons.

[cLaY]

Bush didn't say "if we wait..."...he said Saddam had WMDs and was going to strike us...there was no if. Obama is realistic.

[BIRD33]

And I think what Bush was saying about Saddam was that "if we wait we risk catastrophe".

So, its okay for Obama to promote fear, but you were always accusing Bush of doing it for the wrong reasons.

It was actually we risk "A mushroom cloud on our doorstep".It was from his state of the union right before the war.What the fuck does that mean, stupid?

We lost what a hundred thousand jobs last month?This catastrophe is happening right now around us.We all see it.Saddam had zero nuclear program.How is Obama talking about a reality and Bush making shit up the same thing?

[WoolyGoat]

is he or is he not trying to rush the process of approving a spending program(s) of trillions of dollars?

[BIRD33]

is he or is he not trying to rush the process of approving a spending program(s) of trillions of dollars?

He believes his program is correct.He's not really jazzed up by the thought of the former republican majority who helped get us into this mess changing things he feels are important.There are real world consequences to waiting.You trust the GOP to have the right answer?

[WoolyGoat]

He believes his program is correct.He's not really jazzed up by the thought of the former republican majority who helped get us into this mess changing things he feels are important.There are real world consequences to waiting.You trust the GOP to have the right answer?

all I know is that if I'm spending $1,000 on a TV or a couch or a lawnmower, I'm spending months doing research and figuring out if I'm spending too much, too little, if the product is any good, etc..

these are trillions of dollars he wants to spend, and he's trying to push it through in a week or two. more money than the country has ever spent and he barely wants to take a moment and think about what he's doing.

there shouldn't be anything in the stimulus package that doesn't directly lead to creating jobs. everything else (for the most part) is just fluff and pet projects. dems want it pushed through before everyone figures out where all the money is going. hell, dems themselves don't even know what their exact plan is.

[BIRD33]

all I know is that if I'm spending $1,000 on a TV or a couch or a lawnmower, I'm spending months doing research and figuring out if I'm spending too much, too little, if the product is any good, etc..

these are trillions of dollars he wants to spend, and he's trying to push it through in a week or two. more money than the country has ever spent and he barely wants to take a moment and think about what he's doing.

there shouldn't be anything in the stimulus package that doesn't directly lead to creating jobs. everything else (for the most part) is just fluff and pet projects. dems want it pushed through before everyone figures out where all the money is going. hell, dems themselves don't even know what their exact plan is.

Is Obama doing all the research by himself?He's got a team of people working around the clock on this.Thats not passing this thing on a whim.

Theres a part of that plan the GOP wants taken out that gives money to local counties I think in the mid west to unblock creeks and rivers that fish spawn in.How does that create jobs they ask.By improving the local fishing in each area leading to more tourism.Thats the kind of shit the republicans are using which on its face looks wasteful but when you scratch the surface its valid.

The GOP is only making a fuss about this because they are so low in the polls they can't afford to look like they are being pushed around by Obama.This is all for their political gain and not the countries.

We'll lose another 100,000 jobs next month that we'll never get back but thank god we didnt waste 10 million on something that doesnt pay dividends right away and the GOP support in their base goes up 2%.

Do you get how serious all those jobs lost are?I know people laid off who are counting on getting rehired once the floodgate of dollars from this stimulus happens and construction starts up again because the banks will lend.We cant afford to wait.

[cLaY]

correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Bush just do the same thing last year?

[Paddy]

Nobody on either side can know for sure if this package or any other package will have the desired effect, but this is absolutely true:

The GOP is only making a fuss about this because they are so low in the polls they can't afford to look like they are being pushed around by Obama.This is all for their political gain and not the countries.

[WoolyGoat]

correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Bush just do the same thing last year?

if he did, doesn't that mean they're both incompetent?


I don't understand why you insist on making the "well, Bush did the same thing!" argument. How is that proving your point that Obama is doing a good job?

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

It was actually we risk "A mushroom cloud on our doorstep".It was from his state of the union right before the war.What the fuck does that mean, stupid?

This was Bush's final speech before the war was started.

My fellow citizens, events in Iraq have now reached the final days of decision. For more than a decade, the United States and other nations have pursued patient and honorable efforts to disarm the Iraqi regime without war. That regime pledged to reveal and destroy all its weapons of mass destruction as a condition for ending the Persian Gulf War in 1991.

Since then, the world has engaged in 12 years of diplomacy. We have passed more than a dozen resolutions in the United Nations Security Council. We have sent hundreds of weapons inspectors to oversee the disarmament of Iraq. Our good faith has not been returned.

The Iraqi regime has used diplomacy as a ploy to gain time and advantage. It has uniformly defied Security Council resolutions demanding full disarmament. Over the years, U.N. weapon inspectors have been threatened by Iraqi officials, electronically bugged, and systematically deceived. Peaceful efforts to disarm the Iraqi regime have failed again and again -- because we are not dealing with peaceful men.

The regime has a history of reckless aggression in the Middle East. It has a deep hatred of America and our friends. And it has aided, trained and harbored terrorists, including operatives of al Qaeda.

The danger is clear: using chemical, biological or, one day, nuclear weapons, obtained with the help of Iraq, the terrorists could fulfill their stated ambitions and kill thousands or hundreds of thousands of innocent people in our country, or any other.

The United States and other nations did nothing to deserve or invite this threat. But we will do everything to defeat it. Instead of drifting along toward tragedy, we will set a course toward safety. Before the day of horror can come, before it is too late to act, this danger will be removed.

The United States of America has the sovereign authority to use force in assuring its own national security. That duty falls to me, as Commander-in-Chief, by the oath I have sworn, by the oath I will keep.

Recognizing the threat to our country, the United States Congress voted overwhelmingly last year to support the use of force against Iraq. America tried to work with the United Nations to address this threat because we wanted to resolve the issue peacefully. We believe in the mission of the United Nations. One reason the UN was founded after the second world war was to confront aggressive dictators, actively and early, before they can attack the innocent and destroy the peace.

In the case of Iraq, the Security Council did act, in the early 1990s. Under Resolutions 678 and 687 - both still in effect - the United States and our allies are authorized to use force in ridding Iraq of weapons of mass destruction. This is not a question of authority, it is a question of will.

Last September, I went to the U.N. General Assembly and urged the nations of the world to unite and bring an end to this danger. On November 8, the Security Council unanimously passed Resolution 1441, finding Iraq in material breach of its obligations, and vowing serious consequences if Iraq did not fully and immediately disarm.

Today, no nation can possibly claim that Iraq has disarmed. And it will not disarm so long as Saddam Hussein holds power. For the last four-and-a-half months, the United States and our allies have worked within the Security Council to enforce that Council's long-standing demands. Yet, some permanent members of the Security Council have publicly announced they will veto any resolution that compels the disarmament of Iraq. These governments share our assessment of the danger, but not our resolve to meet it. Many nations, however, do have the resolve and fortitude to act against this threat to peace, and a broad coalition is now gathering to enforce the just demands of the world. The United Nations Security Council has not lived up to its responsibilities, so we will rise to ours.

In recent days, some governments in the Middle East have been doing their part. They have delivered public and private messages urging the dictator to leave Iraq, so that disarmament can proceed peacefully. He has thus far refused. All the decades of deceit and cruelty have now reached an end. Saddam Hussein and his sons must leave Iraq within 48 hours. Their refusal to do so will result in military conflict, commenced at a time of our choosing. For their own safety, all foreign nationals - including journalists and inspectors - should leave Iraq immediately.

Many Iraqis can hear me tonight in a translated radio broadcast, and I have a message for them. If we must begin a military campaign, it will be directed against the lawless men who rule your country and not against you. As our coalition takes away their power, we will deliver the food and medicine you need. We will tear down the apparatus of terror and we will help you to build a new Iraq that is prosperous and free. In a free Iraq, there will be no more wars of aggression against your neighbors, no more poison factories, no more executions of dissidents, no more torture chambers and rape rooms. The tyrant will soon be gone. The day of your liberation is near.

It is too late for Saddam Hussein to remain in power. I urge every member of the Iraqi military and intelligence services, if war comes, do not fight for a dying regime that is not worth your own life.

And all Iraqi military and civilian personnel should listen carefully to this warning. In any conflict, your fate will depend on your action. Do not destroy oil wells, a source of wealth that belongs to the Iraqi people. Do not obey any command to use weapons of mass destruction against anyone, including the Iraqi people. War crimes will be prosecuted. War criminals will be punished. And it will be no defense to say, "I was just following orders."

Should Saddam Hussein choose confrontation, the American people can know that every measure has been taken to avoid war, and every measure will be taken to win it. Americans understand the costs of conflict because we have paid them in the past. War has no certainty, except the certainty of sacrifice.

Yet, the only way to reduce the harm and duration of war is to apply the full force and might of our military, and we are prepared to do so. If Saddam Hussein attempts to cling to power, he will remain a deadly foe until the end. In desperation, he and terrorists groups might try to conduct terrorist operations against the American people and our friends. These attacks are not inevitable. They are, however, possible. And this very fact underscores the reason we cannot live under the threat of blackmail. The terrorist threat to America and the world will be diminished the moment that Saddam Hussein is disarmed.

Should enemies strike our country, they would be attempting to shift our attention with panic and weaken our morale with fear. In this, they would fail. No act of theirs can alter the course or shake the resolve of this country. We are a peaceful people - yet we're not a fragile people, and we will not be intimidated by thugs and killers. If our enemies dare to strike us, they and all who have aided them, will face fearful consequences.

We are now acting because the risks of inaction would be far greater. In one year, or five years, the power of Iraq to inflict harm on all free nations would be multiplied many times over. With these capabilities, Saddam Hussein and his terrorist allies could choose the moment of deadly conflict when they are strongest. We choose to meet that threat now, where it arises, before it can appear suddenly in our skies and cities.

The cause of peace requires all free nations to recognize new and undeniable realities. In the 20th century, some chose to appease murderous dictators, whose threats were allowed to grow into genocide and global war. In this century, when evil men plot chemical, biological and nuclear terror, a policy of appeasement could bring destruction of a kind never before seen on this earth.

Terrorists and terror states do not reveal these threats with fair notice, in formal declarations - and responding to such enemies only after they have struck first is not self-defense, it is suicide. The security of the world requires disarming Saddam Hussein now.

As we enforce the just demands of the world, we will also honor the deepest commitments of our country. Unlike Saddam Hussein, we believe the Iraqi people are deserving and capable of human liberty. And when the dictator has departed, they can set an example to all the Middle East of a vital and peaceful and self-governing nation.

The United States, with other countries, will work to advance liberty and peace in that region. Our goal will not be achieved overnight, but it can come over time. The power and appeal of human liberty is felt in every life and every land. And the greatest power of freedom is to overcome hatred and violence, and turn the creative gifts of men and women to the pursuits of peace.

That is the future we choose. Free nations have a duty to defend our people by uniting against the violent. And tonight, as we have done before, America and our allies accept that responsibility.

Good night, and may God continue to bless America.

Where in there did he say that there was a mushroom cloud on our doorstep?

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

I predict that if the clock were turned back 8 years and things were the same as they are right now, Obama would be giving speeches that the "bailout and stimulus" plans are the wrong thing to do.

He would be saying "I don’t oppose all stimulus plans. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of worried Americans, or of concern. What I am opposed to is a dumb stimulus plan. What I am opposed to is a rash stimuls plan. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by James Galbraith and Timothy Geithner and other arm-chair, weekend economists in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs to Americans and in hardships borne."

Then he would wait until he can nitpick the results to death years later and run for President because he was the only one that stood up against it.