[leucetios]

So I was watchng Tripping the Rift last night on SciFi and they went back in time to the creation of the universe to see once and for all if it was god or the big bang. Well, they landed their ship on god and killed him.

When they got back to the future, everything was perfect. With no god there was no religion, no muslims, no jews, no christians. No wars. No crusades. No Inquisition. Everything was peachy on the premise that without god there was no satan, so we were never exposed to evil and everyone was good on their own (until people discovered evil then shit went downhill)

This is my question: Ignore the "is there a god" argument. Would the world have been better or worse off if there had never been the concept of god? If we never had religions?

[EPac]

Boy dat was jus too many words!

[Banana]

ohhhhhh good topic. I'm going to go with yes and no. Back in the "old days" religion was a way of .... law. It was a way of organizing people and keeping them under control. Now, it seems like nothing more than a way to segregate and cause chaos and disorganization. I believe that a concept of a God is way different than religion. Simply, I believe people would have believed in a higher power, even without religion. Religion was all people had at times, but would we be better off without it? I want to say yes. Today, I think we would, but I don't think we would have even gotten to *today* without religion.

That was a nice circular argument I made.

[leucetios]

Ignoring what religion may, or may not be. If we had none, your saying we wouldn't be where we are today. Why?

[Banana]

Originally posted by leucetios@Oct 4 2004, 11:18 AM
Ignoring what religion may, or may not be.  If we had none, your saying we wouldn't be where we are today. Why?

[snapback]81688[/snapback]

My ignorance about religion will show here, but in the past, religion guided people. It propelled them to do things, and more importantly, it propelled them to not do things. Religion was so widespread in the past - it was the cohesion to society. I do believe it has stopped/discouraged deviance throughout history. So, without that control, we might not be as civilized or communal as we are now. In fact, religion may have saved us from anarachy on a number of levels. The counter-argument is that religion has also resulted in a lot of the upheaval we have now. Hence, my circular argument. :$

[Sarng]

I don't think that you could have had a society that you would not have had "god" or relgion. I think somewhere along the way, it would have come along. People need ways to explain things that they don't understand. They need a way to define the rules without looking like they are imposing them arbitrarily. They need something that they can turn to with hope and prayer so that maybe things will get better for them. They need to think there is an afterlife if for no other reason than to be reaquainted with family at a later time. I would be willing to bet that you could not find a civilization of people, no matter how remote, that hadn't developed some sense of religion in their customs.

[leucetios]

Originally posted by chickychick@Oct 4 2004, 09:36 AM
I don't think that you could have had a society that you would not have had "god" or relgion.  I think somewhere along the way, it would have come along.  People need ways to explain things that they don't understand.  They need a way to define the rules without looking like they are imposing them arbitrarily.  They need something that they can turn to with hope and prayer so that maybe things will get better for them.  They need to think there is an afterlife if for no other reason than to be reaquainted with family at a later time.  I would be willing to bet that you could not find a civilization of people, no matter how remote, that hadn't developed some sense of religion in their customs.

[snapback]81697[/snapback]

That may be true, but it isn't the question. Do you think that if we could hypothetically have not had gods/religion in our past that the human race would be better or worse off?

[Sarng]

Originally posted by leucetios@Oct 4 2004, 09:12 PM
That may be true, but it isn't the question.  Do you think that if we could hypothetically have not had gods/religion in our past that the human race would be better or worse off?

[snapback]81711[/snapback]

well, my point was that i don't think that you could have kept it from happening. but, if we go with yoiur hypothetical example, then I would say that we would be better off. My assumption would be, that if you could develop a society that saw no need for religion, then they must have established a strong enough social framework that the need for religion would not be required, and therefore the people never created a religiobn. If you could achieve this society, then I think it would be better than those we have today, because it would eliminate the argument over these unknown gods and these written laws and their interpretations. It would eliminate trying to decide who is a false prophet and who isn't.

sorry for any typeos, but my fingers are about three sentences ahead of the screen and I don't want to go back and correct. Good question.

[leucetios]

Originally posted by chickychick@Oct 4 2004, 10:26 AM
If you could achieve this society, then I think it would be better than those we have today, because it would eliminate the argument over these unknown gods and these written laws and their interpretations.  It would eliminate trying to decide who is a false prophet and who isn't.

Good question.

[snapback]81727[/snapback]

I'm not so sure. I think the Middle East would definately be an alien landscape compare to what it is now. With no god of any kind the whole Jews homeland thing wouldn't have happened. Then the whole holy city wouldn't matter anyway.

I think there defiantely would not have been the wars and bloodshed we've seen associated with religion. But we would have seen different reasons for bloodshed and war. People might have had to either ivnent a new reason, or just been honest about their reasons for going to war. For example Hitler wasn't really about Religion, was he? Sure he had a hardon for the Jews, but I could see the whole WWII thing without God - Hitler could have just as easily believed in a superior race from a biological POV and decided to purge the impure races.

I think gods and religion make a great scapegoat, and are an effective way to motivate and mobilize large numbers of people. But without god/religion I don't think History would have been noticeably less bloody

[Velvet]

Beter without all these damn gods . Look at the churches and what do you see . Its a tax free money making machine full of pedofiles . Before the christian thing there was wiccan and people werent going around killing each other for there church and god then .

[leucetios]

Originally posted by Velvet@Oct 4 2004, 01:58 PM
Beter without all these damn gods . Look at the churches and what do you see . Its a tax free money making machine full of pedofiles  . Before the christian thing there was wiccan and people werent going around killing each other for there church and god  then .

[snapback]81866[/snapback]

Don't be so sure Wicca was so warm and fuzzy.

[Velvet]

Hey I dont care really... I just wanted to say something :lol:

[leucetios]

>_>

Maybe I'm cynial. I just don't think humans need gods to be shits to each other

[Velvet]

Um shouldnt that be cynical and I agree

[leucetios]

Velvet corrected my spelling. :|

I don't know what to say

[Velvet]

Shh dont tell everyone . They might expect me to get it right :lol:

[leucetios]

From now on I am holding you to a higher standard velvet

[Velvet]

:o Well now .. thats not fair leu .. I was just um .. well .. it wasnt me . I would never spell right :lol: