07-24-2007, 05:27 PM
what? Wrote:can we just change the title to "vick likely fucked" or something like that?^^^gets it!
![[Image: boston.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/FattyJ16/boston.jpg)
Vick done for 2007
07-24-2007, 07:29 PM
BIRD33 Wrote:How bout "Atlanta football on hiatus for the next 5 years"?
go dawgs
07-24-2007, 07:45 PM
Mrs and Mr Vick must be very proud of their athlete sons.
leeman Wrote:I love the meathead...
07-25-2007, 04:37 AM
i bet they don't play "who let the dogs out" in atlanta ever.
07-25-2007, 04:54 AM
trouble Wrote:i bet they don't play "who let the dogs out" in atlanta ever.
I think you meant to add "again"
and I bet they do
07-26-2007, 05:09 PM
One thing we've noticed in the eight days since Mike Vick was indicted is that hardly anyone is discussing the fact that Vick is charged with conspiracy not only to engage in interstate dog fighting, but also with conspiracy to maintain an interstate gambling enterprise.
So why is no one talking about the gambling aspect of this?
If Mike Vick gets a rush out of betting $10,000 on one of his dogs to rip someone else's dog to shreds, would he not also get a thrill out of betting $10,000 on himself to beat the 49ers by more than six points?
And would a revelation that Vick's erratic performances over the years, with one "up" week often followed by one "down" week, might be the result of an extension of his gambling habit not be an even bigger threat to the overall image of the league than proof of the stuff Mike might have been doing in his "free" time?
Maybe that's why the NFL and/or the Falcons aren't talking much about the gambling angle. Maybe the league and the team realize that it possibly could have its own Tim Donaghy situation on their hands, and that this one could threaten to reduce the overall credibility of the league to the level of pro wrestling.
We're not saying that Vick bet on (or, God forbid, against) his team, or that he intentionally played poorly one week to drive the line down for the following week. And we hope nothing like that has happened to the sport we love, or ever will.
But we can't help but think that the failure of the league and the Falcons to acknowledge the fact that the charges pending against Vick are as much about gambling as they are about dog fighting makes us wonder whether the powers-that-be aren't secretly soiling their scivvies over the possibility that the in-house investigation will reveal that Vick's gambling habit wasn't confined to the blackjack tables and the dog-fighting pits.
So why is no one talking about the gambling aspect of this?
If Mike Vick gets a rush out of betting $10,000 on one of his dogs to rip someone else's dog to shreds, would he not also get a thrill out of betting $10,000 on himself to beat the 49ers by more than six points?
And would a revelation that Vick's erratic performances over the years, with one "up" week often followed by one "down" week, might be the result of an extension of his gambling habit not be an even bigger threat to the overall image of the league than proof of the stuff Mike might have been doing in his "free" time?
Maybe that's why the NFL and/or the Falcons aren't talking much about the gambling angle. Maybe the league and the team realize that it possibly could have its own Tim Donaghy situation on their hands, and that this one could threaten to reduce the overall credibility of the league to the level of pro wrestling.
We're not saying that Vick bet on (or, God forbid, against) his team, or that he intentionally played poorly one week to drive the line down for the following week. And we hope nothing like that has happened to the sport we love, or ever will.
But we can't help but think that the failure of the league and the Falcons to acknowledge the fact that the charges pending against Vick are as much about gambling as they are about dog fighting makes us wonder whether the powers-that-be aren't secretly soiling their scivvies over the possibility that the in-house investigation will reveal that Vick's gambling habit wasn't confined to the blackjack tables and the dog-fighting pits.
07-26-2007, 05:10 PM
Here are some of the highlights from Deion Sanders interview.
First, Deion tries to give us a peek into Mike Vick's twisted mind.
"What a dog means to Vick might be a lot different than what he means to you or I. Hold on, don't start shaking your head just yet. Listen to me.
"Some people kiss their dogs on the mouth. Some people let their dogs eat from their plate. Some people dress their dogs in suits more expensive than mine, if you can believe that.
"And some people enjoy proving they have the biggest, toughest dog on the street. You're probably not going to believe this, but I bet Vick loves the dogs that were the biggest and the baddest. Maybe, he identified with them in some way."
So Deion essentially is saying that if Mike was subjecting his dogs to fighting (and likewise "euthanized" the ones who were destined to die in the pit), he only did it because he loved them so much.
Deion then echoes some Emmitt-style words of wisdom regarding the situation, suggesting that Vick is being prosecuted not because he was the ringleader but simply because he is famous.
Next, Deion argues that we should be more concerned about finding the guys who shot Brocnos cornerback Darrent Williams, and the persons who tied up and robbed Miami Heat forward Antoine Walker (does Tim Donaghy have an alibi?).
In the end, Deion suggests that the media is focusing on the Vick story because there's nothing better to talk about. "The reason this is turning into a three-ring circus is that baseball is boring, basketball is months away, football is around the corner and we in the media don’t have a thing interesting to write about," Deion writes.
Yeah, Deion. One of the most controversial figures in the history of professional sports is poised to break one of its most hallowed records, and the NBA is wrestling with a gambling scandal that is rocking the sport to its very core. And training camps are opening throughout the NFL with a high number of first-round holdouts. Yawwwwwwwn.
First, Deion tries to give us a peek into Mike Vick's twisted mind.
"What a dog means to Vick might be a lot different than what he means to you or I. Hold on, don't start shaking your head just yet. Listen to me.
"Some people kiss their dogs on the mouth. Some people let their dogs eat from their plate. Some people dress their dogs in suits more expensive than mine, if you can believe that.
"And some people enjoy proving they have the biggest, toughest dog on the street. You're probably not going to believe this, but I bet Vick loves the dogs that were the biggest and the baddest. Maybe, he identified with them in some way."
So Deion essentially is saying that if Mike was subjecting his dogs to fighting (and likewise "euthanized" the ones who were destined to die in the pit), he only did it because he loved them so much.
Deion then echoes some Emmitt-style words of wisdom regarding the situation, suggesting that Vick is being prosecuted not because he was the ringleader but simply because he is famous.
Next, Deion argues that we should be more concerned about finding the guys who shot Brocnos cornerback Darrent Williams, and the persons who tied up and robbed Miami Heat forward Antoine Walker (does Tim Donaghy have an alibi?).
In the end, Deion suggests that the media is focusing on the Vick story because there's nothing better to talk about. "The reason this is turning into a three-ring circus is that baseball is boring, basketball is months away, football is around the corner and we in the media don’t have a thing interesting to write about," Deion writes.
Yeah, Deion. One of the most controversial figures in the history of professional sports is poised to break one of its most hallowed records, and the NBA is wrestling with a gambling scandal that is rocking the sport to its very core. And training camps are opening throughout the NFL with a high number of first-round holdouts. Yawwwwwwwn.
07-26-2007, 05:22 PM
Someone needs to ask Deion if they can get footage of himself standing next to a guy slamming a dog into concrete until it dies.I'm sorry but it seems like black people thinks this behavior is ok.
See You In Toledo
07-26-2007, 06:18 PM
BIRD33 Wrote:How bout "Atlanta football on hiatus for the next 5 years"?
Dude was over rated anyhow. Joey Harrington is the savior!
Also, it sounds like Wooly might have a fantasy league problem, perhaps.....
I know what you're thinking now. You think we're all gay, don't you? Think we're all just a bunch of deviant lifestyle-living same-sex having motherfuckers, am I right?
cratch:
07-31-2007, 03:04 PM
We outline below the practical effect of Tony Taylor's guilty plea on federal conspiracy charges in the Mike Vick dog-fighting and gambling prosecution. Because, as we explained, Taylor pleaded guilty as charged to all charges, there was and is no "plea bargain," since the term implies that the guy will plead guilty to some lesser offense.
But given the news from July 26 that a "superseding indictment" is coming, we wonder whether a plea deal with Taylor was brokered in advance.
Here's how it could have gone down.
Aware that he is a target of the investigation, Taylor would have had his lawyer contact the feds about a possible deal. Since the law permits individuals to be charged both with conspiracy to commit a crime and with the actual commission of the crime, the feds decided to use a two-step process, indicting all four of the defendants in the first wave, and allowing Taylor to plead guilty to the initial charges.
Buoyed by Taylor's signed "summary of facts," the feds can now issue a new indictment not only for conspiracy, but also for the underlying crimes. Based on our research, this would add another potential 21 years in jail time to the equation for the remaining defendants.
If Taylor is omitted from any new charges, then the deal apparently was that he'd plead guilty to conspiracy charges and not face responsibility for the stiffer potential penalties.
Of course, maybe each of the four defendants were given the opportunity to do this.
And maybe two of them still will.
But given the news from July 26 that a "superseding indictment" is coming, we wonder whether a plea deal with Taylor was brokered in advance.
Here's how it could have gone down.
Aware that he is a target of the investigation, Taylor would have had his lawyer contact the feds about a possible deal. Since the law permits individuals to be charged both with conspiracy to commit a crime and with the actual commission of the crime, the feds decided to use a two-step process, indicting all four of the defendants in the first wave, and allowing Taylor to plead guilty to the initial charges.
Buoyed by Taylor's signed "summary of facts," the feds can now issue a new indictment not only for conspiracy, but also for the underlying crimes. Based on our research, this would add another potential 21 years in jail time to the equation for the remaining defendants.
If Taylor is omitted from any new charges, then the deal apparently was that he'd plead guilty to conspiracy charges and not face responsibility for the stiffer potential penalties.
Of course, maybe each of the four defendants were given the opportunity to do this.
And maybe two of them still will.
07-31-2007, 03:05 PM
We've finally had a chance to read the paperwork filed on Monday in connection with the Mike Vick dog-fighting prosecution, and the 13-page "summary of the facts" contains no significant new information, with the exception of a statement at paragraph 4 of the document that the BadNewz Kennels operation and gambling monies were funded "almost exclusively" by Vick.
Though that assertion from Tony Taylor should surprise no one, since the other three guys don't play, you know, pro football, it's the first time that this statement has been articulated in connection with the prosecution's case.
As a procedural matter, this new document differs from the original indictment because one of the members of the alleged conspiracy is now admitting that the conspiracy existed, and is acknowledging as true most if not all of the indictment's allegations through and until his departure from the operation in September 2004.
Contrary to popular belief, the document reflects no plea bargain of any kind. Instead, Taylor is saying, "I did it; I'm guilty."
And the only potential benefit he'll receive is the same benefit that the others would receive by accepting responsibility now for their alleged misdeeds. Under the federal sentencing guidelines (which are no longer mandatory but which are routinely followed), 'fessing up to the crime early can result in a lesser sentence.
Though Taylor likewise has no deal to "cooperate" with the government in the prosecution against Vick and the other two defendants, there's nothing more for Taylor to do. By signing the "summary of facts," he has provided prosecutors with a road map for his direct examination when he is called to testify at trial.
So what does it all mean to Vick? In order to secure a "not guilty" verdict, Vick will now have to persuade a jury that Taylor's agreement with all of the charges made against him was and is a bald-faced lie.
Good luck with that.
Though we're reluctant to compare this case to the O.J. Simpson prosecution (but will nevertheless do so), assume that Simpson's pal Al Cowlings had been arrested for participating in the murders, and had immediately pleaded guilty as charged, to all charges, acknowledging in writing and later under oath that he and Simpson killed the two victims.
As we see it, Simpson's chances of skating under those circumstances are roughly the same as Vick's now.
Though that assertion from Tony Taylor should surprise no one, since the other three guys don't play, you know, pro football, it's the first time that this statement has been articulated in connection with the prosecution's case.
As a procedural matter, this new document differs from the original indictment because one of the members of the alleged conspiracy is now admitting that the conspiracy existed, and is acknowledging as true most if not all of the indictment's allegations through and until his departure from the operation in September 2004.
Contrary to popular belief, the document reflects no plea bargain of any kind. Instead, Taylor is saying, "I did it; I'm guilty."
And the only potential benefit he'll receive is the same benefit that the others would receive by accepting responsibility now for their alleged misdeeds. Under the federal sentencing guidelines (which are no longer mandatory but which are routinely followed), 'fessing up to the crime early can result in a lesser sentence.
Though Taylor likewise has no deal to "cooperate" with the government in the prosecution against Vick and the other two defendants, there's nothing more for Taylor to do. By signing the "summary of facts," he has provided prosecutors with a road map for his direct examination when he is called to testify at trial.
So what does it all mean to Vick? In order to secure a "not guilty" verdict, Vick will now have to persuade a jury that Taylor's agreement with all of the charges made against him was and is a bald-faced lie.
Good luck with that.
Though we're reluctant to compare this case to the O.J. Simpson prosecution (but will nevertheless do so), assume that Simpson's pal Al Cowlings had been arrested for participating in the murders, and had immediately pleaded guilty as charged, to all charges, acknowledging in writing and later under oath that he and Simpson killed the two victims.
As we see it, Simpson's chances of skating under those circumstances are roughly the same as Vick's now.
08-14-2007, 03:08 PM
well well well goat....
As the sports world continues to get its arms around Monday's surprising news that Mike Vick's two remaining co-defendants are going to plead guilty to charges that they conspired with Vick to maintain an interstate gambling enterprise and an interstate dog-fighting operation, we think it's time to apply some common sense to the current state of affairs.
Throw the presumption of innocence out the window, folks. Clearly, Vick is factually guilty of the charges filed against him. Why else would each of the three men with whom he allegedly conspired admit that there was a conspiracy?
Each of the three men will go to jail. The only benefit that they'll derive from their decision to 'fess up is that they'll avoid being charged with the underlying crimes, which in the case of the interstate gambling enterprise carries a far stiffer maximum penalty.
And now Vick must ask himself whether he wants to take advantage of that same benefit. He can plead guilty to conspiracy charges and hope for the best when it comes to sentencing, or he can roll the dice and hope that his lawyer can discredit seven witnesses (and counting), each of whom will presumably testify that Vick was involved in the gambling and dog-fighting venture.
The fact that Vick is reportedly contemplating his options reinforces our belief that Vick is by no means innocent. Innocent men don't ponder pleading guilty; they proclaim their innocence in clear, certain terms and they prepare to prove their innocence in court.
Per ESPN, if Vick doesn't plead guilty to the conspiracy charges by Friday, a new indictment with at least two new dog fighting charges will be filed. We believe that the new indictment will likely also include a count based on Title 18, Section 1952 of the U.S. Code, which is titled "Interstate or foreign trade or travel in aid of racketeering enterprises," and which carries a maximum penalty is 20 years behind bars.
It is a tremendous dilemma for Vick. The man who has spent his life escaping with ease from difficult situations is now backed into a corner. One option means certain imprisonment for a relatively short period of time. The other option means a strong likelihood, but not a certainty, of an even longer period behind bars.
Vick might be inclined not to plead guilty because to do so would likely end his NFL career permanently, but even an acquittal at this point won't be enough to get Vick back inside a shirt with the shield at the bottom of the collar. We've said all along that Vick will have a chance at returning to the NFL only if there is Duke lacrosse-style evidence that fully exonerates him. With Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips pleading guilty as charged, that's simply not going to happen.
So we think Vick's best bet is to plead guilty, bid farewell to the NFL, do his time quickly and quietly, and then return to the CFL or the UFL or whatever other FL is out there when he gets out.
And, if all else fails, there's always pro wrestling.
UPDATE: ESPN's Kelly Naqi just said on SportsCenter that if Vick doesn't plead guilty to pending charges by Friday he'll face at least two new counts for "felony dog fighting." But dog fighting didn't become a felony under federal law until a couple of weeks after the initial search of Vick's property in Virginia. Under federal law, it was a misdemeanor at the time Vick was allegedly engaged in it. And ESPN continues to ignore the gambling aspect of these charges.
As the sports world continues to get its arms around Monday's surprising news that Mike Vick's two remaining co-defendants are going to plead guilty to charges that they conspired with Vick to maintain an interstate gambling enterprise and an interstate dog-fighting operation, we think it's time to apply some common sense to the current state of affairs.
Throw the presumption of innocence out the window, folks. Clearly, Vick is factually guilty of the charges filed against him. Why else would each of the three men with whom he allegedly conspired admit that there was a conspiracy?
Each of the three men will go to jail. The only benefit that they'll derive from their decision to 'fess up is that they'll avoid being charged with the underlying crimes, which in the case of the interstate gambling enterprise carries a far stiffer maximum penalty.
And now Vick must ask himself whether he wants to take advantage of that same benefit. He can plead guilty to conspiracy charges and hope for the best when it comes to sentencing, or he can roll the dice and hope that his lawyer can discredit seven witnesses (and counting), each of whom will presumably testify that Vick was involved in the gambling and dog-fighting venture.
The fact that Vick is reportedly contemplating his options reinforces our belief that Vick is by no means innocent. Innocent men don't ponder pleading guilty; they proclaim their innocence in clear, certain terms and they prepare to prove their innocence in court.
Per ESPN, if Vick doesn't plead guilty to the conspiracy charges by Friday, a new indictment with at least two new dog fighting charges will be filed. We believe that the new indictment will likely also include a count based on Title 18, Section 1952 of the U.S. Code, which is titled "Interstate or foreign trade or travel in aid of racketeering enterprises," and which carries a maximum penalty is 20 years behind bars.
It is a tremendous dilemma for Vick. The man who has spent his life escaping with ease from difficult situations is now backed into a corner. One option means certain imprisonment for a relatively short period of time. The other option means a strong likelihood, but not a certainty, of an even longer period behind bars.
Vick might be inclined not to plead guilty because to do so would likely end his NFL career permanently, but even an acquittal at this point won't be enough to get Vick back inside a shirt with the shield at the bottom of the collar. We've said all along that Vick will have a chance at returning to the NFL only if there is Duke lacrosse-style evidence that fully exonerates him. With Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips pleading guilty as charged, that's simply not going to happen.
So we think Vick's best bet is to plead guilty, bid farewell to the NFL, do his time quickly and quietly, and then return to the CFL or the UFL or whatever other FL is out there when he gets out.
And, if all else fails, there's always pro wrestling.
UPDATE: ESPN's Kelly Naqi just said on SportsCenter that if Vick doesn't plead guilty to pending charges by Friday he'll face at least two new counts for "felony dog fighting." But dog fighting didn't become a felony under federal law until a couple of weeks after the initial search of Vick's property in Virginia. Under federal law, it was a misdemeanor at the time Vick was allegedly engaged in it. And ESPN continues to ignore the gambling aspect of these charges.
08-14-2007, 03:41 PM
8 change the title of this thread to : "Vick probably done for 2007, Wooleygoat defintly has a dildo up his ass."
See You In Toledo
08-14-2007, 05:51 PM
quint Wrote:When will he sign up for professional wrestling?
If he were smart he'd get that guilty plea in ASAP before new charges are filed. He could be out of jail in 2 years or less and play in the CFL. His career in the NFL is done now. He lied to Goodell and that is exactly why Goodell had a closed door meeting with him.
08-14-2007, 06:20 PM
I'm going to bet that being charged with a felony is the reason Goodel had a closed door meeting with Vick.
I will take action with anyone that Vick will play another snap in the NFL.
Qyntell Woods of the TrialBlazers got busted for dogfighting two years ago and got zero days in jail.Granted there werent as many charges compared to vick but he still got no jail time and was immediatly able to resume his professional career.Worst case for Vick is he gets two or three years and does a whole religious conversion when he gets out and then gets picked up by the team most desperate for a starting QB.The $$'s he can bring a franchise by winning outweighs a dog fighting conviction that by that point will be a 4 year old story.
I will take action with anyone that Vick will play another snap in the NFL.
Qyntell Woods of the TrialBlazers got busted for dogfighting two years ago and got zero days in jail.Granted there werent as many charges compared to vick but he still got no jail time and was immediatly able to resume his professional career.Worst case for Vick is he gets two or three years and does a whole religious conversion when he gets out and then gets picked up by the team most desperate for a starting QB.The $$'s he can bring a franchise by winning outweighs a dog fighting conviction that by that point will be a 4 year old story.
See You In Toledo
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