[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

Not true. We have plenty of those in Ireland. However, we're all the same color, so you can't be branded a racist when you call them out on it.

So you are telling me that Ireland will pay people to sit home and not try to work? No disability. No physical problem. Just don't want to work.

And I'm not talking about any particular race. There are several that have taken advantage of the welfare system. And that system has pretty much taken any motivation to work completely away. You can go back a few generations in most of those people's families and you'll find hard working people that went out and provided for their families. That has been taken away from a large part of our population.

Now they expect things to be given to them.

[BIRD33]

I would imagine that other countries have a version of welfare. They just didn't impliment it as a peace offering and go overboard with it. They didn't create an entire class of people that no longer have any work skills or work ethic and not only don't won't work, but can't do much of anything.

So what does that have to do with a family of four where the parents make a combined income of $100,000 and can't afford to pay their healthcare costs for the whole family?Did you know that one of the leading causes of bankruptcy in the US is healthcare costs due to serious illness?

You're trying to demonize the poor over an issue that really doesnt have anything to do with them.When the poor get sick they go to the emergency room and never pay for it.When a working class family gets sick they go bankrupt.Guess thats their fucking fault, huh?Thats the real issue here.

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

U HAEV NO BASIS FOR TAHT STATM3NTDO!1111!! OMG U THINK DA HAALTH R LOBYIST AND CROK3D GOP POLITICIANS(U KNOW DA ON3S TAHT JUST GOT RUN OUT OF OFIEC LAST ALECTION) HAD A LOT 2 DO WIT KILNG TAHTDO?????!?! OMG WTF U THINK IF SHA HADNT TREID TAHT THEN W3 WUD B THES FAR FORWARD IN G3TNG THES DON3LAST????!!!! WTF PRESIEDNTIAL EL3CTION IF U ASK3D A GOP CANDIDAET IF HA ENDORSED UNIEVRSAL HAALTH R THEY WUD HAEV LAUGHED AT U!!11!!!1! OMG IF HILARY DOASNT GET ALECT3D W3 WIL AL OW3 HER A DEBT OF GRATITUD3 FOR ADVANCNG TEH D3BAET 2 A REALITY!11!111!! OMG

[BIRD33]

You spent time doing that?Good one.You're like a 5 year old who can't stand the truth.

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

So what does that have to do with a family of four where the parents make a combined income of $100,000 and can't afford to pay their healthcare costs for the whole family?Did you know that one of the leading causes of bankruptcy in the US is healthcare costs due to serious illness?

You're trying to demonize the poor over an issue that really doesnt have anything to do with them.When the poor get sick they go to the emergency room and never pay for it.When a working class family gets sick they go bankrupt.Guess thats their fucking fault, huh?Thats the real issue here.

Hey, I'm not saying that health care doesn't suck in today's world. And I'm not saying that we don't need to do a ton of work to bring down the cost of medical treatment, the lawsuits, the cost of drugs, etc. I think its ridiculous. I wish I could arbitrarily raise my rates for construction work by 15 to 20% every year. Without having to defend it to anyone. No competition.

I hate the costs of health care. But I don't think the government can step in and make it better. They'll just make it worse.

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

U SPENT TIEM DONG TAHTGOD?!!?? OMG WTF LOL U!!!!1!1 LOL LIEK A 5 Y3AR OLD WHO CANT STAND DA TRUTH!1111 OMG

I didn't spend any time doing that. wtf are you talking about?

[BIRD33]

Hey, I'm not saying that health care doesn't suck in today's world. And I'm not saying that we don't need to do a ton of work to bring down the cost of medical treatment, the lawsuits, the cost of drugs, etc. I think its ridiculous. I wish I could arbitrarily raise my rates for construction work by 15 to 20% every year. Without having to defend it to anyone. No competition.

I hate the costs of health care. But I don't think the government can step in and make it better. They'll just make it worse.

So after eliminating the welfare state as the reason it can't be done what is your reasoning as to why it can't happen when you look at all the other countries that have done it?

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

So after eliminating the welfare state as the reason it can't be done what is your reasoning as to why it can't happen when you look at all the other countries that have done it?

Because it will cost too much and there won't be anyone that is willing to pay for it. Our politicians will not be able to "bring down the costs of health care to an affordable level". They will try and fail and then they will institute a huge new agency that is in charge of providing this health care and collecting the money and paying for it and the cost of all of that, added to the cost of health care in the first place will make it ridiculous.

The core difference in Democrats and Republicans is that democrats always say they can provide things for people. Republicans try to leave enough money in the hands of the working class that they can get what they want. Its a fundamental difference.

Democrats like more government. Republicans like less.

[Paddy]

When is the election?

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

When is the election?

November.

[BIRD33]

Because it will cost too much and there won't be anyone that is willing to pay for it. Our politicians will not be able to "bring down the costs of health care to an affordable level". They will try and fail and then they will institute a huge new agency that is in charge of providing this health care and collecting the money and paying for it and the cost of all of that, added to the cost of health care in the first place will make it ridiculous.

The core difference in Democrats and Republicans is that democrats always say they can provide things for people. Republicans try to leave enough money in the hands of the working class that they can get what they want. Its a fundamental difference.

Democrats like more government. Republicans like less.

How do other countries afford it?Answer that question before you say it can't happen.You don't seem to know a lot about why we can't but you definitly know we can't.How did we get into Iraq anyway?

Did you miss the last 8 years where the republican party became the party of big goverment?Have you noticed the record spending?Are you actually paying attention?Your description of the republican party is not accurate anymore and I know its your favorite team but you need to take a fresh look.

[Paddy]

How do other countries afford it?

There is an additional tax in Ireland.

[BIRD33]

There is an additional tax in Ireland.

But arent your taxes high to begin with?

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

There is an additional tax in Ireland.

^ Welcome to the democratic solution for everything. Let me guess next who they will try to tax...

[BIRD33]

^ Welcome to the democratic solution for everything. Let me guess next who they will try to tax...

Raise taxes so poor kids can get health care?Fuck that!I like spending my money in the billions in foreign lands that don't even want us.

Hey Flump whose economy is doing better right now?The high taxed euro's or us?Seems like they can manage healthcare and do well economically.

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

Raise taxes so poor kids can get health care?Fuck that!I like spending my money in the billions in foreign lands that don't even want us.

Hey Flump whose economy is doing better right now?The high taxed euro's or us?Seems like they can manage healthcare and do well economically.

Its not about raising taxes so that poor kids can get health care. If it was that simple, everyone would be for it.

Its about trusting our government to develop a program that is affordable. Which they can't. So, our increased taxes won't be going to help these poor kids. It will be going to more special interest groups, more government employees, more wasteful spending.

It would be like donating to a charity and only 10% of the money goes to the actual charitable cause. The rest goes into the coffers to grease the machine.

[Paddy]

But arent your taxes high to begin with?

For 2008:

20% on the first 35k

41% on the balance

2% on the gross PRSI (pay related social insurance, there's your universal healthcare)

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

For 2008:

20% on the first 35k

41% on the balance

2% on the gross PRSI (pay related social insurance, there's your universal healthcare)

So a family that makes $100,000 per year would pay $2,000 per year for insurance? And that would cover the whole family?

[Banana]

For 2008:

20% on the first 35k

41% on the balance

2% on the gross PRSI (pay related social insurance, there's your universal healthcare)

Wow, that is steep. Taxe rate anyway. 2% is a steal for social insurance.

[BIRD33]

Its not about raising taxes so that poor kids can get health care. If it was that simple, everyone would be for it.

Its about trusting our government to develop a program that is affordable. Which they can't. So, our increased taxes won't be going to help these poor kids. It will be going to more special interest groups, more government employees, more wasteful spending.

It would be like donating to a charity and only 10% of the money goes to the actual charitable cause. The rest goes into the coffers to grease the machine.

How do you know they can't?Isnt social security a complicated system?How did we manage to perfect that?

Your whole post cites not one fact to back you up.Its all I don't think we can.Great arguement.

So what happened to the defense of the republican party after I pointed out it was the party of big goverment?Do you disagree?I guess the koolaid is losing its flavor.