[BIRD33]

More dilution to this diluted market. I bet he doesn't get an icon at Mag7 though! That is, after all, the gold standard......

I wonder if whoever created that logo ever looks in the mirror and says to themselves "wow, so this is what I'm an expert on, this is what my life has become".

[BIRD33]

Interesting article in the washington post that makes you go hmmm.I think what he's saying about russia and saudia arabia never wanting to stop the sale of oil is obvious and accurate.I just want to get to the point where its cheaper to not use oil which sounds far fetched but I believe is possible.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...inionsbox1

"The theme was much the same at the press club, where he gave a luncheon speech. "CO2from oil is going to get into the atmosphere," he said, because "you're not going to be able to tell Saudi Arabia and Russia, the countries that have oil, not to sell their oil." Hansen's solution: "Phase out coal as promptly as is practical."


The message from the celebrated scientist was somewhat at odds with a popular culture that has equated global warming with miles per gallon. And while Hansen wasn't discouraging fuel economy -- he called it "very important," because it could discourage drilling for "every last drop of oil" -- he said there's hope of preventing the world from burning through the rest of the world's major oil reserves. If we don't put it in our Hummers, the Chinese will eventually put it in theirs. "We can't prevent [using] the big, easily available oil in these superdeposits that Saudi Arabia have," he said. "That's going to end up in the atmosphere. I don't see any way to avoid it."
But what we could do, Hansen said, is phase out all coal use by 2030 except at those power plants that could capture the carbon dioxide. With the help of a carbon tax, coal would be replaced by solar, wind and other renewable energy, he said. That, and improved forestry and agriculture, could return carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere to safe-for-the-planet levels, even if we burn through the half of Earth's oil that we haven't already used. "

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

So......8 and Bird.....what would each of you propose to help with the problem? Its obvious that you both are arguing over methods that are all unfortunatly long term. What would be the "band aid" or temp solutions that we need to look at to help the people who are hurting?

I'll tell you what the "band aid" is. Find out who is arbitrarily running up the price of crude oil and who is getting rich off of this. Read this:

In 1973, the Hunt family of Texas, possibly the richest family in America at the time, decided to buy precious metals as a hedge against inflation. Gold could not be held by private citizens at that time, so the Hunts began to buy silver in enormous quantity.

In 1979 the sons of patriarch H.L. Hunt, Nelson Bunker and William Herbert, together with some wealthy Arabs, formed a silver pool. In a short period of time they had amassed more than 200 million ounces of silver, equivalent to half the world's deliverable supply.

When the Hunt's had begun accumulating silver back in 1973 the price was in the $1.95 / ounce range. Early in '79, the price was about $5. Late '79 / early '80 the price was in the $50's, peaking at $54.

Once the silver market was cornered, outsiders joined the chase but a combination of changed trading rules on the New York Metals Market (COMEX) and the intervention of the Federal Reserve put an end to the game. The price began to slide, culminating in a 50% one-day decline on March 27, 1980 as the price plummeted from $21.62 to $10.80.

Do you people not think that this exact same thing is going on?

[Anhil8tor]

we should make renewable resources cheaper and more available. Solar power would be a great addition to new homes that are popping up but its not cost effective. No one buys a home anymore thinking... this is where i'm going to live the rest of my life.


I love that speaking my opinion makes me a biggot but a black guy voting for obama for no other reason than he is black is a choice. No canidate in any field can promise change. Corruption is too deep in america now.

[who]

A little more complicated than that, the silver wasn't based on futures but on current available levels.

With oil, first you have the oil fields each with a maximum potential daily output, secondly you have storage of the daily output and how much is able to be delivered to the worlds refineries, third you have the refineries capability in processing the crude for various oil and fuel products and last moving the refined products to storage and retail complexes.

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

A little more complicated than that, the silver wasn't based on futures but on current available levels.

With oil, first you have the oil fields each with a maximum potential daily output, secondly you have storage of the daily output and how much is able to be delivered to the worlds refineries, third you have the refineries capability in processing the crude for various oil and fuel products and last moving the refined products to storage and retail complexes.

I'm not talking about the real world. I'm talking about the futures market, where prices are set.

When the news prints the price of oil each day, they get it from the Chicago Board of Exchange for the price of a barrel of sweet crude oil. That price is established by a combination of people that are wanting to actually buy a barrel of oil and speculators that buy the barrel and then sell it before it comes due.

If the Saudis (for example) wanted to run up the price of oil, arbitrarily, then they could raise the bids for a barrel of oil. Lots of them. Start bidding more than the going price. Inch the prices up each day. Then, prior to the contract coming due, sell the oil contracts. Even if they sell them at a higher price, they are only losing the "margin" between their buy and sell price.

But, on the back end, they are making a ton off of the price increase on the actual oil they are providing to the market.

[who]

I'm not talking about the real world. I'm talking about the futures market, where prices are set.

When the news prints the price of oil each day, they get it from the Chicago Board of Exchange for the price of a barrel of sweet crude oil. That price is established by a combination of people that are wanting to actually buy a barrel of oil and speculators that buy the barrel and then sell it before it comes due.

If the Saudis (for example) wanted to run up the price of oil, arbitrarily, then they could raise the bids for a barrel of oil. Lots of them. Start bidding more than the going price. Inch the prices up each day. Then, prior to the contract coming due, sell the oil contracts. Even if they sell them at a higher price, they are only losing the "margin" between their buy and sell price.

But, on the back end, they are making a ton off of the price increase on the actual oil they are providing to the market.

You can substitute oil with any commodity, this is the way the bond market works. Those folks are a whole smarter than me, take alternate fuels for a perfect example, before the floods in the Midwest they (the speculators) were already spewing the propaganda about shortages of corn, to start driving up prices and it isn't illegal, bottom line I believe is every step of the way folks are making way more than they should but it bears the question what is a fair profit? Could be oil has been undervalued the last 100 years and it is now starting to be priced fairly.

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

You can substitute oil with any commodity, this is the way the bond market works. Those folks are a whole smarter than me, take alternate fuels for a perfect example, before the floods in the Midwest they (the speculators) were already spewing the propaganda about shortages of corn, to start driving up prices and it isn't illegal, bottom line I believe is every step of the way folks are making way more than they should but it bears the question what is a fair profit? Could be oil has been undervalued the last 100 years and it is now starting to be priced fairly.

Well, the problem with doing it on the commodity market, is that in order to do it right, you need to own the commodity that is trading. If you are selling corn, for example, then you can buy corn to drive up the price and then sell it back before the contract comes due.

Say corn is selling for $100 a bushel. You buy 50,000 bushels of Aug 08 corn for $105. Then you wait until mid August and buy them back. Even if you buy them back at $125, you are only out the $20 increase x 50,000. But, then you turn around and sell the 400,000 bushels that you need to sell at the new $125 price.

For this to work, you have to own a ton of the market though. Like the Saudis do.

[who]

Well, the problem with doing it on the commodity market, is that in order to do it right, you need to own the commodity that is trading. If you are selling corn, for example, then you can buy corn to drive up the price and then sell it back before the contract comes due.

Say corn is selling for $100 a bushel. You buy 50,000 bushels of Aug 08 corn for $105. Then you wait until mid August and buy them back. Even if you buy them back at $125, you are only out the $20 increase x 50,000. But, then you turn around and sell the 400,000 bushels that you need to sell at the new $125 price.

For this to work, you have to own a ton of the market though. Like the Saudis do.

The Cartel not the Saudis and basically The United States is the Iranian representative in the Cartel and what business is the Bush family in?

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

The Cartel not the Saudis and basically The United States is the Iranian representative in the Cartel and what business is the Bush family in?

Well, I don't really care who is doing it, but I think they should be able to figure it out. I'll be honest and say that I don't think that Bush is involved in it.

But, I do think that it is a conspiracy of the Arab oil market. I think that they have educated enough of their kids over here so that they are sophisticated enough now to manipulate the world markets in oil. They have the product and they have the money to do it.

[who]

Well, I don't really care who is doing it, but I think they should be able to figure it out. I'll be honest and say that I don't think that Bush is involved in it.

But, I do think that it is a conspiracy of the Arab oil market. I think that they have educated enough of their kids over here so that they are sophisticated enough now to manipulate the world markets in oil. They have the product and they have the money to do it.

I agree

[BIRD33]

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/beat_...nt_what_is

Well, here's my quick back of the envelop calculation. According to the NYT, the Energy Information Agency estimates that the total amount of oil in the offshore zone in question is about 16 billion barrels. If we assume that it would take about ten years from the day of authorization to get to peak production and that most of the oil is pumped out over 30 years, this would translate into a bit over 1 million barrels of oil a day.

That would be equal to about 1 percent of world production in a decade. If we assume a long-run demand elasticity of 0.3, this would imply a drop in world prices of approximately 3 percent. In today's prices, we would be looking at a drop in the price of a barrel of oil from around $135 to $131. If this were passed on one to one in gas prices (this is long-run story), we might expect to see a drop in the price of a gallon of gas from around $4.00 to around $3.92 a gallon.

[quint]

How come no one is asking for Iraq to give us oil at a greatly reduced rate? If we are going to be the security force over there than they should give us great rates. If they didn't like the price then maybe they would get their ass in gear about governing themselves.

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

How come no one is asking for Iraq to give us oil at a greatly reduced rate? If we are going to be the security force over there than they should give us great rates. If they didn't like the price then maybe they would get their ass in gear about governing themselves.

Bing-fucking-O!. I have wondered that exact same thing. I was hoping that once the war was over, that the US and Iraq would share that oil and they would work out some kind of a deal to pay us back for the cost of the war with oil.

[ji_docfunk]

Ok but is the short term anwser in the hands of the government or the private sector?


The prices are so out of the normal ballpark either of the above two can jump in to help and make a killing $$$. Problem is for how long? And, it still dosent help curb down the price ANYTIME soon.

This might sound a bit crazy but i was thinking of letting "big oil" jump into the car market without penalty, forcing them to come up with the newer technology or helping implement it. This way they can still provit from whats left and they can save the dying auto industry (because they have the money to do it) and they wont be left out of the big markets as they still are a huge part of it, just in a different category. Its crazy i know but it could work.
What do you guys think? I think it would be fun to watch these companies compete with eachother.

[BIRD33]

Bing-fucking-O!. I have wondered that exact same thing. I was hoping that once the war was over, that the US and Iraq would share that oil and they would work out some kind of a deal to pay us back for the cost of the war with oil.

Uhh...Iraq never asked to be liberated?They rightfully don't think they owe us anything.We did this to get rid of WMD's or be liberators or whatever the flavor of the month is now not for material gains.At least thats what we told them and our leaders told us.

To Quints point about us being their security force being a reason they owe us I'd say look at the polls of Iraqi's which show an overwhelming majority in favor of us leaving.We are the only ones who want us there.If we leave now Iran will be the security force and will probably do a better job at stabalizing the region than we can.We can't do that because they are our mortal enemy and leaving would show how our invasion of Iraq did more to benefit Iran than any other country which makes our decision to be liberators look plain as day stupid.

Don't ya just love the postion GWB put us in!

[BIRD33]

Ok but is the short term anwser in the hands of the government or the private sector?


The prices are so out of the normal ballpark either of the above two can jump in to help and make a killing $$$. Problem is for how long? And, it still dosent help curb down the price ANYTIME soon.

This might sound a bit crazy but i was thinking of letting "big oil" jump into the car market without penalty, forcing them to come up with the newer technology or helping implement it. This way they can still provit from whats left and they can save the dying auto industry (because they have the money to do it) and they wont be left out of the big markets as they still are a huge part of it, just in a different category. Its crazy i know but it could work.
What do you guys think? I think it would be fun to watch these companies compete with eachother.

If you think the main profiteers of oil are actually going to seriously get into the car market and design cars that hurt their profits you are crazy.

[ji_docfunk]

Crazy like a fox!!!

[BIRD33]

Crazy like a fox!!!

Stick to Viagra sales.

[who]

Stick to Viagra sales.

:bird: