marijuana users - Printable Version

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marijuana users - BIRD33 - 02-10-2009

Cucumber Wrote:No, for a couple of reasons:

My infant son has no risk of any of those things. Like I said before, if he feels that cutting off his foreskin is his best defense against HPV or HIV, he's free to do so as an independent adult.

The study says "may" cut the risk, not will cut the risk. (pun intentional)

African Americans and Hispanics are most at risk for HIV. My son(?) will be neither.

One study is not nearly enough to change the perspective that the medical risks outweigh the benefits. This is not true for me personally, nor is it impacting the medical community. There are hundreds of studies claiming harm. This one doesn't change those things.

The John Hopkins study tested only AA men.

Plus

The study's only conclusion was

Well we all werent born with that luxury.

You have to admit this Johns Hopkins study along with others points to the fact that there is most likely a medical advantage to having a circumcision unless you believe african americans have an extra bone in their penis or something that makes them so different.I don't see any studies posted by you showing how not getting circumcised helps prevent AIDS.Mutilation is obviously a major consideration to think about but the odds are low of that occuring.A lot of your argument is superficial based on very very weird men who are so upset by their circumcision they post on forums about it.

I can sum up my whole philosophy like this.The kid will never miss it and it helps prevent diseases.

marijuana users - Flumper Barflusterbutt - 02-10-2009

BIRD33 Wrote:I can sum up my whole philosophy like this.The kid will never miss it and it helps prevent diseases.

And he won't look like a poor kid sporting a missile dick in the showers during gym class.

marijuana users - snarg - 02-10-2009

BIRD33 Wrote:First you say I have no clue what I'm talking about and then I show some relevant facts you didnt know and now that arguments dead so you ironically to the maximum degree call me transparent.How transparent is your hard on for me?If only you meant that to be funny then maybe someone would look forward to your posts.Can I get a little credit on learning you today?

i can't stop laffing
you really learned me today

thanks for making my day, li'l guy
seriously, i am in stitches

oh, and ftr, i feel really bad for all those purchased infants
muaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaaha

marijuana users - snarg - 02-10-2009

Cucumber Wrote:Funny that this initially got brought up because Bird assumed I was the one mindlessly listening to societal standards without independent thought and here he is, hanging his hat on one or two studies and the fact that "most" people (a WHOPPING 55% in the US) are circumcised.

The pot head who told me I mindlessly adhered to societal standards was rejecting my stance that I won't encourage pot or alcohol use with my children. Shocking parenting, isn't it?

this might be better with "eh", eh??

marijuana users - PinesChic - 02-10-2009

snarg Wrote:this might be better with "eh", eh??

dam.... you must be tryin ta get into tha arcade toooo....loololol

marijuana users - snarg - 02-10-2009

why do you even bother??
when you read your own posts what do you think??

marijuana users - WoolyGoat - 02-10-2009

someone change cuke's title to "foreskin nazi"

marijuana users - Banana - 02-10-2009

BIRD33 Wrote:A lot of your argument is superficial based on very very weird men who are so upset by their circumcision they post on forums about it.

I can sum up my whole philosophy like this.The kid will never miss it and it helps prevent diseases.

Yes, clearly. You totally nailed it! This is why I posted numerous links about the risks of circumcision. And the medical evidence that the risks VERY CLEARLY outweigh the benefits. And that the peditatric society doesn't support it, and the fact that only 9% of babies in Canada are currently circumcised and the fact that I can't find a doctor to do it. You clearly and consistently overlook the fact that my infant son HAS NO CHANCE of acquiring HIV or HPV. Do you know what else would prevent HIV and HPV? Cutting off the entire penis. But, we don't consider that an acceptable procedure, do we? And yet, circumcision can result in the equivalent of no penis. You'd better hope your son has no complications or he very well might miss it.

Why bother having an intellectual debate with someone if you aren't going to pay attention to anything they say for fear that it might crush your little microcosm of research findings, that you like to erroneously consider facts? And no, they aren't facts. For something to be considered a fact, it must be a reproducable finding. Those studies cleary point out it hasn't been reproducible in other populations.

I was more swayed by Blondie's claim that she'd sucked an uncut dick and didn't like it so much than the BS nonsense you are spouting off to make an appearance that you actually have intellectual feelings about the importance of foreskin, when we all know (based on your posts) you just think foreskin is gross.

I can sum up your philosophy in two words: grow up.

marijuana users - BIRD33 - 02-10-2009

Cucumber Wrote:Yes, clearly. You totally nailed it! This is why I posted numerous links about the risks of circumcision. And the medical evidence that the risks VERY CLEARLY outweigh the benefits. And that the peditatric society doesn't support it, and the fact that only 9% of babies in Canada are currently circumcised and the fact that I can't find a doctor to do it. You clearly and consistently overlook the fact that my infant son HAS NO CHANCE of acquiring HIV or HPV. Do you know what else would prevent HIV and HPV? Cutting off the entire penis. But, we don't consider that an acceptable procedure, do we? And yet, circumcision can result in the equivalent of no penis. You'd better hope your son has no complications or he very well might miss it.

Why bother having an intellectual debate with someone if you aren't going to pay attention to anything they say for fear that it might crush your little microcosm of research findings, that you like to erroneously consider facts? And no, they aren't facts. For something to be considered a fact, it must be a reproducable finding. Those studies cleary point out it hasn't been reproducible in other populations.

I was more swayed by Blondie's claim that she'd sucked an uncut dick and didn't like it so much than the BS nonsense you are spouting off to make an appearance that you actually have intellectual feelings about the importance of foreskin, when we all know (based on your posts) you just think foreskin is gross.

I can sum up your philosophy in two words: grow up.

What is the % of botched circumcisions a year,am I ever going to see that posted by you?Now weigh that against a persons chances of contracting HPV or HIV over their lifetime.I know your infant son has no chance of catching either but if something simple can be done shortly after birth to help protect him over his whole lifetime I don't know how you can't consider that.

So these Johns Hopkins and all the other studies are not fact?Really?Wow thanks for the lesson on what a study is.Answer this for me.Based on what we know right now does it look like there might be a benefit to having a circumcision?I'm sorry this hasnt yet been endorsed by whatever pediatric association that you look on as gospel but you can not deny it looks like there could be a benefit and because of that more study is warranted.I never said this was an done deal but to say those studies hold no weight because whoever you look to for guidance that is using data from the 70's hasnt endorsed it yet is plain ignorant.How many studies have to point in one direction before I'm allowed to form an opposite opinion of yours, oh ye protector of foreskin?

How am I not paying attention to your argument?I've considered what you said about the negatives of having it done and don't find the instances of botched circumcisions that rampant enough to rule out having it done.That seems pretty reasonable to me but I guess when I disagree that must mean I'm being immature.What a bunch of crap.You are the end all be all on this subject I guess and any thoughts otherwise is just an example of my ignorance.If only I understood this subject as well as you.Alas I'm only human.

The last paragraph of yours is the worst thing I've ever seen you write on this board.Show me one, just one instance where I said I'm against not having it done because it looks ugly.When this was originally brought up by you long ago I took issue with how you made it seem like there was no doubt that circumcision was wrong because I had read things to the contrary.Are the studies I made you aware of BS nonsense or might my argument have merit?Are you more passionate about this, sure.Do you have all the answers on this subject, of course not.Is telling someone to grow up because they disagree with you a childish way to express your argument, absolutely.

marijuana users - Flumper Barflusterbutt - 02-11-2009

I ain't no uncut, broke nut, trailer smut...
that don't know what's what...
I can bang any slut, tap that butt, get my nut..
you know that's how I strut...

There ain't no welfare, for doctor care, to get your junk where...
its like a millionaire..
You must not be aware, of what a scare, how people stare....
you ain't got savoirfaire...

I just can't console, no poor ass soul, who's only goal...
Is on the death toll...
You know I stroll, I'm in control, I sport a cut pole....
That's how I roll.

marijuana users - BIRD33 - 02-11-2009

I sure hope cucumber deigns me with an answer.I promise I'll sit here in awe.

marijuana users - CT280 - 02-11-2009

Flumper Barflusterbutt Wrote:I ain't no uncut, broke nut, trailer smut...
that don't know what's what...
I can bang any slut, tap that butt, get my nut..
you know that's how I strut...

There ain't no welfare, for doctor care, to get your junk where...
its like a millionaire..
You must not be aware, of what a scare, how people stare....
you ain't got savoirfaire...

I just can't console, no poor ass soul, who's only goal...
Is on the death toll...
You know I stroll, I'm in control, I sport a cut pole....
That's how I roll.

:lool:

marijuana users - Banana - 02-11-2009

You've made it abundantly clear you have no interest in anyone's stats or research but your own. I highly doubt you looked at any single link I posted, and you clearly missed the entire point of why I don't agree with it. I fail to see how continuing this diatribe when you are steadfastly going to cling to your own views is going to change anything, but I'll try one last time.

BIRD33 Wrote:What is the % of botched circumcisions a year,am I ever going to see that posted by you?Now weigh that against a persons chances of contracting HPV or HIV over their lifetime.I know your infant son has no chance of catching either but if something simple can be done shortly after birth to help protect him over his whole lifetime I don't know how you can't consider that.

My sister quoted the rates 10 -35%. I've already quoted the rates of HIV and HPV. The rate of contracting HIV? This stat doesn't exist. The incidence rate in the States is 0.33%. The incidence rate of HPV - 7.35%. Let's not compare apples to orange - HPV is a very treatable STD. And yes, men without foreskin DO contact both diseases.

So, the chances of contracting those things isn't negated 100% by circumcision. Let's not pretend that circumcision PREVENTS all cases of HIV and HPV, k? The studies have clearly said behavioural factors play more important roles. Like, for example, wearing a condom - something I find entirely more reasonable than chopping off a part of a baby that he is born with. You think it's fine, I do not. Also, did you read the links where it was pointed out that other studies have found results converse to that? (i.e., that being circumsized actually INCREASES the STD risk?) What does this do to your opinion? Any change?

Quote:So these Johns Hopkins and all the other studies are not fact?Really?Wow thanks for the lesson on what a study is.Answer this for me.Based on what we know right now does it look like there might be a benefit to having a circumcision?

No, it's not a FACT. This is pure science. For something to be considered a fact, it needs to have repoducable findings. That study clearly indicated the results were not clear. How do those findings, in AA and Hispanic populations, translate to real life? This is the only way they do: In AA and Hispanics, circumcision MAY reduce the chances of acquiring HIV or HPV. That's the only fact. This fact doesn't take into consideration the following: sex practices, sexual orientation, methods of prevention or other races. Don't ask me how an AA dick is different than any other, I don't know. But I do know this is a scientific question. You can't just hypothesize that all dicks are the same (which you did seem to assume).

Bird Wrote:I'm sorry this hasnt yet been endorsed by whatever pediatric association that you look on as gospel but you can not deny it looks like there could be a benefit and because of that more study is warranted.I never said this was an done deal but to say those studies hold no weight because whoever you look to for guidance that is using data from the 70's hasnt endorsed it yet is plain ignorant.How many studies have to point in one direction before I'm allowed to form an opposite opinion of yours, oh ye protector of foreskin?

Is now when you confess that you didn't bother reading any of the links I posted? Because if you did, this wouldn't be in question. And I don't understand your sentence about "data from the 70's" Explain.

BIRD Wrote:How am I not paying attention to your argument?I've considered what you said about the negatives of having it done

And yet, you boiled my stance down to the few men I have heard from who hate being circumcized?

BIRD Wrote:The last paragraph of yours is the worst thing I've ever seen you write on this board.Show me one, just one instance where I said I'm against not having it done because it looks ugly.When this was originally brought up by you long ago I took issue with how you made it seem like there was no doubt that circumcision was wrong because I had read things to the contrary.Are the studies I made you aware of BS nonsense or might my argument have merit?Are you more passionate about this, sure.Do you have all the answers on this subject, of course not.Is telling someone to grow up because they disagree with you a childish way to express your argument, absolutely.

You've refered to my sister and I as "freaks" because we prefer foreskin. You once commented (and I looked for it, but not for long) that it was weird to keep foreskin when it had no use. And you DON'T think it's childish to consider the foreskin of an infant weird? Or that women who might prefer it are freaky?

Conclusion: I've told you that I respect that you at least have a reason for not preferring it, but that I don't agree with it and wonder if you ever bothered to consider what might go wrong. Hey, if you are more comfortable acting in opposition of what medical science says (that being that despite the HIV studies, the medical risks STILL outweigh the benefits) go for it. But, don't read my post saying I won't do it because my infant has no chance of getting HIV or HPV as a "superficial" argument "based on very very weird men who are so upset by their circumcision they post on forums about it." Judgemental and totally off base.

I rest my case on the preponderance of medical information which says it's not medically indicated. You rest yours on the belief that you think your son is likely to acquire an STD. Very disparate views here. Your views aren't in question. Your reliance on incomplete data is. How is it that you favor those two studies over the hundreds and thousands of studies which have suggested it's not medically indicated (even in the face of the HIV findings)? The fact is - the North American medical community does not support circumcision as a medically necessary intervention. It's a personal one. But, I do think it's very important that people KNOW both sides before they do it. And do you? Did you really look at the data? If so, this argument should be over. It boils down to personal choice. But, because they are our children, it most certainly should be INFORMED personal decision.

marijuana users - CT280 - 02-11-2009

the bump seems to be getting alittle better.

marijuana users - Paddy - 02-11-2009

I hate quint for bringing this up.

marijuana users - Banana - 02-11-2009

I hate that Bird's allowed to call other people weird, freaky, shallow, childish, and narrow-minded based on their views, but I'm "snarg" if I do it or call him on it.

marijuana users - Paddy - 02-11-2009

You really do, I can tell.

marijuana users - Banana - 02-11-2009

Figures he'd resort to the lowest common denominator.

marijuana users - CT280 - 02-11-2009

birds not feeling it today. ass whooped in 2 threads and i havent even read them all. nor will i.

marijuana users - WoolyGoat - 02-11-2009

Cucumber Wrote:I hate that Bird's allowed to call other people weird, freaky, shallow, childish, and narrow-minded based on their views, but I'm "snarg" if I do it or call him on it.

he's a democrat...the rules don't apply to him.