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Nancy Pelosi - BIRD33 - 11-11-2006

Flumper Barflusterbutt Wrote:You might want to work on this conspiracy theory a bit more. It doesn't make any sense and needs a talking head liberal to spin it into something that makes more sense. I thought you cut and runners all thought cheney was running the show and not Bush? Have you decided to abandon that theory now so that you can create another one?

If you are going to spin it now that Bush is the master and puppeteer, then you are going to have to erase a lot of bullshit you guys have been pumping out the past 6 years.


The puppeter lead him to a disaster which is why bush is no longer listening to Cheyney and fired rumsfeld who was a cheyney guy.The era of the neo-con is over.The fact that Bush is now listening to the same people who predicted this failure is evidence of that fact and how cheyney is now on the outs with bush.

Nancy Pelosi - BIRD33 - 11-11-2006

Flumper Barflusterbutt Wrote:And I'm not reading that long post, btw.

It was written by a soldier who's in iraq and actually argues both sides.It makes sense you'd skip over it because it was to long.Who needs facts?

Nancy Pelosi - Flumper Barflusterbutt - 11-11-2006

BIRD33 Wrote:The puppeter lead him to a disaster which is why bush is no longer listening to Cheyney and fired rumsfeld who was a cheyney guy.The era of the neo-con is over.The fact that Bush is now listening to the same people who predicted this failure is evidence of that fact and how cheyney is now on the outs with bush.

Um. Wow, this is really getting complicated. But most spin style conspiracies start off complicated and end up with very succinct sound bites. Like "where are the wmd's"? I'm sure this new theory will end up the same way.

So, as I see it from what you are saying. Cheney knew 15 years ago exactly how a war in Iraq that brought down Saddam would turn out. So, he teamed up with his good friend Rumsfield and pulled the puppet strings to make Bush go to war. They (Cheney and Rumsfield) concocted all of these crazy reasons to do it and Bush bought it, even though his dad was dead set against it.

So, now that all of these things that Cheney knew would happen have actually happened and the will of the liberals is broken and they are all crying "get out", Cheney is flip flopping on Bush.

So, Bush is pissed and won't be bossed around anymore by Cheney and that made Cheney mad. But Bush didn't care, so he fired Cheney's best friend Rumsfield and hired a new crutch that is good friends with James Baker.

Now I'm going to assume this is the same James Baker that served on Bush's election legal team. The same one that Bush has been using to get advice on Iraq since 2003. The same one that Bush brought in to discuss options in Iraq with his staff, former Defense Secretaries and Former Secretaries of State. Probably even the same one that Bush came close to replacing Rumsfield with after the 2004 election. Maybe even the same Baker that is running the Iraq Study Group that is studying options to end the war in Iraq. Why, I bet its even the same James Baker that probably told Bush to pick Gates instead of himself to be the Defense Secretary since Gates has been a prominent player in the Iraq Study Group.

Now, the thing I think you need to work on with your new conspiracy theory is to explain why Bush would pick Gates, who has been studying ways to get our troops out of Iraq, to replace Rumsfield, who wanted to stay the course.

If Bush is now suddenly the master and puppeteer, why would he do this?

Nancy Pelosi - BIRD33 - 11-12-2006

Flumper Barflusterbutt Wrote:Um. Wow, this is really getting complicated. But most spin style conspiracies start off complicated and end up with very succinct sound bites. Like "where are the wmd's"? I'm sure this new theory will end up the same way.

So, as I see it from what you are saying. Cheney knew 15 years ago exactly how a war in Iraq that brought down Saddam would turn out. So, he teamed up with his good friend Rumsfield and pulled the puppet strings to make Bush go to war. They (Cheney and Rumsfield) concocted all of these crazy reasons to do it and Bush bought it, even though his dad was dead set against it.

So, now that all of these things that Cheney knew would happen have actually happened and the will of the liberals is broken and they are all crying "get out", Cheney is flip flopping on Bush.

So, Bush is pissed and won't be bossed around anymore by Cheney and that made Cheney mad. But Bush didn't care, so he fired Cheney's best friend Rumsfield and hired a new crutch that is good friends with James Baker.

Now I'm going to assume this is the same James Baker that served on Bush's election legal team. The same one that Bush has been using to get advice on Iraq since 2003. The same one that Bush brought in to discuss options in Iraq with his staff, former Defense Secretaries and Former Secretaries of State. Probably even the same one that Bush came close to replacing Rumsfield with after the 2004 election. Maybe even the same Baker that is running the Iraq Study Group that is studying options to end the war in Iraq. Why, I bet its even the same James Baker that probably told Bush to pick Gates instead of himself to be the Defense Secretary since Gates has been a prominent player in the Iraq Study Group.

Now, the thing I think you need to work on with your new conspiracy theory is to explain why Bush would pick Gates, who has been studying ways to get our troops out of Iraq, to replace Rumsfield, who wanted to stay the course.

If Bush is now suddenly the master and puppeteer, why would he do this?


70% of the country disapproves of the war and does not trust Bush, thats why.Cheyney lead him to disaster.James Bakers group is most likely to take a cut and run approach rather then the long term commitment bush intended.If bush takes Bakers advice doesnt that make him a cut and runner and will you support it and be a cut and runner as well?

Bill Clinton said something amazing a few weeks ago.He said "Democrats arent the party of cut and run they are the party of stop and think."

Nancy Pelosi - Flumper Barflusterbutt - 11-14-2006

BIRD33 Wrote:70% of the country disapproves of the war and does not trust Bush, thats why.Cheyney lead him to disaster.James Bakers group is most likely to take a cut and run approach rather then the long term commitment bush intended.If bush takes Bakers advice doesnt that make him a cut and runner and will you support it and be a cut and runner as well?

Bill Clinton said something amazing a few weeks ago.He said "Democrats arent the party of cut and run they are the party of stop and think."

Why would Cheney lead him to disaster when you posted the quote where Cheney predicted exactly what is happening right now? This whole theory of yours doesn't make any sense.

Nancy Pelosi - BIRD33 - 11-14-2006

Flumper Barflusterbutt Wrote:Why would Cheney lead him to disaster when you posted the quote where Cheney predicted exactly what is happening right now? This whole theory of yours doesn't make any sense.

Simple answer is he had real power as Vice president that he didnt have as secretary of defense.The quote was from gulf war 1 and as secretary of defense he was quoting Bush Sr's policy not his own.That doesnt mean he shared that view just like Colin Powell having reservations at the UN during the WMD speech but he had a job to do as he serves at the pleasure of the president.I think we all can figure out what Cheyney really thought from his "greeted as liberators" quote before the war.It's not a secret that he, wolfowitz and other neo-cons were the architects of this war to reshape the middle east.

Can you answer my cut and run question?

Nancy Pelosi - Sassy - 11-14-2006

BIRD33 Wrote:Simple answer is he had real power as Vice president that he didnt have as secretary of defense.The quote was from gulf war 1 and as secretary of defense he was quoting Bush Sr's policy not his own.That doesnt mean he shared that view just like Colin Powell having reservations at the UN during the WMD speech but he had a job to do as he serves at the pleasure of the president.I think we all can figure out what Cheyney really thought from his "greeted as liberators" quote before the war.It's not a secret that he, wolfowitz and other neo-cons were the architects of this war to reshape the middle east.

Can you answer my cut and run question?
Are they exactly the same?

Tell me more. What does mean he shared that view just like Colin Powell having reservations at the UN during the WMD speech but he had a job to do as he serves at the pleasure of the president?How?Give me an example of a secret that he wolfowitz and other neo-cons were the architects of this war to reshape the middle east.Of course I can answer
his or her cut and run question

What was the question ?

Nancy Pelosi - Raiden - 11-14-2006

BIRD33 Wrote:Simple answer is he had real power as Vice president that he didnt have as secretary of defense.

What power does the Veep have, other than breaking ties in the Senate?

Nancy Pelosi - BIRD33 - 11-14-2006

Raiden Wrote:What power does the Veep have, other than breaking ties in the Senate?


So now we are going to pretend that Cheyney didnt have more power than any Vice ever even though it's an acknowledged fact?

Nancy Pelosi - Anhil8tor - 11-14-2006

Think McCain has a shot to win the presidency?

Nancy Pelosi - leucetios - 11-14-2006

Anhil8tor Wrote:Think McCain has a shot to win the presidency?

I can't vote for a man who can't lift his arms past his shoulders, sorry.

Nancy Pelosi - BIRD33 - 11-14-2006

Anhil8tor Wrote:Think McCain has a shot to win the presidency?


It's his turn.I was watching a show last night where they said Guiliani has no chance to win the nomination because he lived with two gay partners that he is friends with while he was getting divorced.How pathetic is it that the GOP won't nominate you because you have gay friends?

Nancy Pelosi - Raiden - 11-14-2006

BIRD33 Wrote:So now we are going to pretend that Cheyney didnt have more power than any Vice ever even though it's an acknowledged fact?

First of all, it's spelled "Cheney". Second, what power does/did he have that no other Veeps have had? Did the Constitution change in order to accommodate him?

Nancy Pelosi - BIRD33 - 11-14-2006

Raiden Wrote:First of all, it's spelled "Cheney". Second, what power does/did he have that no other Veeps have had? Did the Constitution change in order to accommodate him?

So you choose to play dumb.Is it not a fact that most intelligent people acknowledge that chayney had more influence over policy decisions than any vice ever?Was he not at the heart of the planning of the neo-con vision of the reshaping of the middle east?This isnt even debatable and is just a tactic to avoid discussing the real issues.

Nancy Pelosi - Raiden - 11-14-2006

oh, you mean influence. It seemed like you were claiming that he had some actual powers.

Nancy Pelosi - BIRD33 - 11-14-2006

Raiden Wrote:oh, you mean influence. It seemed like you were claiming that he had some actual powers.

Nope.Thats the basis of my bush being the puppet and the vice pulling the strings arguement that flump can't bring himself to grasp.

Nancy Pelosi - leucetios - 11-14-2006

Question: At election time do you guys vote along party lines, or based on the politician themselves?

Nancy Pelosi - BIRD33 - 11-14-2006

leucetios Wrote:Question: At election time do you guys vote along party lines, or based on the politician themselves?


vote individually unless I know nothing about either then I go straight democrat.

Nancy Pelosi - leucetios - 11-14-2006

BIRD33 Wrote:vote individually unless I know nothing about either then I go straight democrat.

That's what I normally try to do. I went straight democrat this last election cause I am new to MN and had no clue who these freaking people were :$

Nancy Pelosi - Anhil8tor - 11-14-2006

I vote republican because I dislike the gheys!