How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - Printable Version
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How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - BIRD33 - 10-11-2006
Flumper Barflusterbutt Wrote:October 2002
I'm suprised you dont know by now that just because Bush says something doesnt mean its true. Just look at the last sentence.Not one part is true.
"After eleven years during which we have tried containment, sanctions, inspections, even selected military action, the end result is that Saddam Hussein still has chemical and biological weapons and is increasing his capabilities to make more. And he is moving ever closer to developing a nuclear weapon."
At one time bush had 70% of the country behind him on Iraq.Are the rest of Americans besides you stupid or have they gotton tired of the half truths for which americans are dying because of?
For the first time in the Newsweek poll, a majority of Americans now believe the Bush administration knowingly misled the American people in building its case for war against Saddam Hussein: 58 percent vs. 36 percent who believe it didn't.
"And pessimism over Iraq is at record highs on every score: nearly two in three Americans, 64 percent, believe the United States is losing ground there; 66 percent say the war has not made America safer from terrorism (just 29 percent believe it has); and 53 percent believe it was a mistake to go to war at all, again the first time the Newsweek poll has registered a majority in that camp."
"The president clearly faces constraints as he seeks to address the public concerns about Iraq that have shrouded this midterm election: 83 percent of respondents thought that Mr. Bush was either hiding something or mostly lying when he discussed how the war in Iraq was going. . . .
He's going down as more dishonest than Nixon.
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - BIRD33 - 10-11-2006
Flumper Barflusterbutt Wrote:I guess I don't get your point. In 2002 Bush stated that Iraq, Iran and North Korea were the nations to watch out for. They were all seeking nuclear weapons and intended to use them on us or our allies. Now that this is true, how is that his "doctrine"?
You've never heard the White House use the term "Bush Doctrine" when it comes to talking about their policy?Jesus Christ.It didnt just say "hey look out for those guys" it was an official reasoning on why America can invade a country that didnt attack us.He talked like a tough guy and made it sound like America was going to take out all rogue nations seeking nukes but in reality it made us weaker because these nations like Iran and N korea called our bluff to make us look like fools and because people feel mislead by Iraq there is no chance we'll invade anyone.You might want to get a grasp on the presidents policies before you stick up for them.
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - Flumper Barflusterbutt - 10-11-2006
BIRD33 Wrote:I'm suprised you dont know by now that just because Bush says something doesnt mean its true. Just look at the last sentence.Not one part is true.
"After eleven years during which we have tried containment, sanctions, inspections, even selected military action, the end result is that Saddam Hussein still has chemical and biological weapons and is increasing his capabilities to make more. And he is moving ever closer to developing a nuclear weapon."
At one time bush had 70% of the country behind him on Iraq.Are the rest of Americans besides you stupid or have they gotton tired of the half truths for which americans are dying because of?
For the first time in the Newsweek poll, a majority of Americans now believe the Bush administration knowingly misled the American people in building its case for war against Saddam Hussein: 58 percent vs. 36 percent who believe it didn't.
"And pessimism over Iraq is at record highs on every score: nearly two in three Americans, 64 percent, believe the United States is losing ground there; 66 percent say the war has not made America safer from terrorism (just 29 percent believe it has); and 53 percent believe it was a mistake to go to war at all, again the first time the Newsweek poll has registered a majority in that camp."
"The president clearly faces constraints as he seeks to address the public concerns about Iraq that have shrouded this midterm election: 83 percent of respondents thought that Mr. Bush was either hiding something or mostly lying when he discussed how the war in Iraq was going. . . .
He's going down as more dishonest than Nixon.
Well, this is where you and I are going to have to agree to disagree. I don't think that he ever intentionally lied, embellished or exaggerated the threat from Iraq. I honestly think that he was relying on what he considered good intelligence. I think that Colin Powell believed everything that he testified to at the UN and I think that he and other military and intelligence people were giving the President and his advisors the best intelligence that they had.
The fact that Saddam had made and used chemical and biological weapons has never been disputed.
The fact that Saddam was an aggressor in the Middle East has never been disputed.
The fact that Saddam tortured and killed his own people has never been disputed.
The fact that Saddam supported terrorist groups has never been disputed.
Everyone keeps getting hung up on the SINGLE detail in the reason we went to war and that was to disarm him. True, when we got there, no weapons were found. Were they there before we got there? Well we know he had them at one time. Where they went? Who knows.
I don't think he or anyone in his administration ever lied to us. History is going to have to prove this out, if it can be proven either way.
If Clinton had done exactly the same thing that Bush did, I would not be taking the other side now. I would remember exactly why we did it when we did it, and I would be behind it 100% now until the issue is resolved and our troops can be safely brought home.
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - Sassy - 10-11-2006
Flumper Barflusterbutt Wrote:Are they exactly the same?BIRD33 Wrote:I'm suprised you dont know by now that just because Bush says something doesnt mean its true. Just look at the last sentence.Not one part is true.
"After eleven years during which we have tried containment, sanctions, inspections, even selected military action, the end result is that Saddam Hussein still has chemical and biological weapons and is increasing his capabilities to make more. And he is moving ever closer to developing a nuclear weapon."
At one time bush had 70% of the country behind him on Iraq.Are the rest of Americans besides you stupid or have they gotton tired of the half truths for which americans are dying because of?
For the first time in the Newsweek poll, a majority of Americans now believe the Bush administration knowingly misled the American people in building its case for war against Saddam Hussein: 58 percent vs. 36 percent who believe it didn't.
"And pessimism over Iraq is at record highs on every score: nearly two in three Americans, 64 percent, believe the United States is losing ground there; 66 percent say the war has not made America safer from terrorism (just 29 percent believe it has); and 53 percent believe it was a mistake to go to war at all, again the first time the Newsweek poll has registered a majority in that camp."
"The president clearly faces constraints as he seeks to address the public concerns about Iraq that have shrouded this midterm election: 83 percent of respondents thought that Mr. Bush was either hiding something or mostly lying when he discussed how the war in Iraq was going. . . .
He's going down as more dishonest than Nixon.
Well, this is where you and I are going to have to agree to disagree. I don't think that he ever intentionally lied, embellished or exaggerated the threat from Iraq. I honestly think that he was relying on what he considered good intelligence. I think that Colin Powell believed everything that he testified to at the UN and I think that he and other military and intelligence people were giving the President and his advisors the best intelligence that they had.
The fact that Saddam had made and used chemical and biological weapons has never been disputed.
The fact that Saddam was an aggressor in the Middle East has never been disputed.
The fact that Saddam tortured and killed his own people has never been disputed.
The fact that Saddam supported terrorist groups has never been disputed.
Everyone keeps getting hung up on the SINGLE detail in the reason we went to war and that was to disarm him. True, when we got there, no weapons were found. Were they there before we got there? Well we know he had them at one time. Where they went? Who knows.
I don't think he or anyone in his administration ever lied to us. History is going to have to prove this out, if it can be proven either way.
If Clinton had done exactly the same thing that Bush did, I would not be taking the other side now. I would remember exactly why we did it when we did it, and I would be behind it 100% now until the issue is resolved and our troops can be safely brought home.
Why?:
said .
When was he?If you could have any kind of robot what would it be?
I get it.
.Good reason.
What happened to it?
That makes sense to me.
When was this exactly?Good reason.
was killed?Good reason.
Where did get ?That's a rather sweeping generalization.That input matched my default category.
I don't know if they were.
A place we call "reality."Why?:
said .
I think is a lot of things.
Right now?
That is a hypothetical question.What would make you ?
And the disadvantage of that is?
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - BIRD33 - 10-11-2006
Flumper Barflusterbutt Wrote:Well, this is where you and I are going to have to agree to disagree. I don't think that he ever intentionally lied, embellished or exaggerated the threat from Iraq. I honestly think that he was relying on what he considered good intelligence. I think that Colin Powell believed everything that he testified to at the UN and I think that he and other military and intelligence people were giving the President and his advisors the best intelligence that they had.
Corky Siemaszko writes in the New York Daily News: "Colin Powell fought the Viet Cong, but he was no match for the Bush administration hard-liners who 'used' his prestige to sell the Iraq war to the American people, his wife says.
"In 'Soldier: The Life of Colin Powell,' Powell's wife, Alma, says the former secretary of state was 'callously used to promote a war she wished had never happened,' author Karen DeYoung writes.
"'They needed him to do it because they knew people would believe him,' she told DeYoung, an editor at the Washington Post."
Do you think Powell would let his wife say this if he didnt believe it too?He's quoted in woodwards book saying he had to "trim alot of garbage out" that the whitehouse was pressuring him to include in his speech to the UN.If he didnt make that speech he was getting fired.
The fact that Saddam had made and used chemical and biological weapons has never been disputed.
The fact that Saddam was an aggressor in the Middle East has never been disputed.
The fact that Saddam tortured and killed his own people has never been disputed.
By this logic N korea is the worst offender on earth.Now we are having talks with them and will end up giving them aid.See how you are being inconsistent in your arguements?
The fact that Saddam supported terrorist groups has never been disputed.
Not Alquedia, like Bush said but doesnt anymore and cheyney said and still despite no evidence says they did.
Everyone keeps getting hung up on the SINGLE detail in the reason we went to war and that was to disarm him. True, when we got there, no weapons were found. Were they there before we got there? Well we know he had them at one time. Where they went? Who knows.
people are getting hung up because american kids are getting killed for a flawed macho vision of what we could do.
I don't think he or anyone in his administration ever lied to us. History is going to have to prove this out, if it can be proven either way.
Read woodwards book, its fact now not theory.I bet you won't read it.
If Clinton had done exactly the same thing that Bush did, I would not be taking the other side now. I would remember exactly why we did it when we did it, and I would be behind it 100% now until the issue is resolved and our troops can be safely brought home.
Clinton didnt do it for the same reason bush's father didnt do it which is because of exactly the situation we are in right now.EXACTLY WHAT ALL THE EXPERTS PREDICTED.
Ignoring other peoples arguements that are backed up by facts so it doesnt take away from your position is the same thing as lying.When people die because of it it's a disgrace.
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - Flumper Barflusterbutt - 10-11-2006
BIRD33 Wrote:Ignoring other peoples arguements that are backed up by facts so it doesnt take away from your position is the same thing as lying.When people die because of it it's a disgrace.
So some guy named "Corky" interviews Colin Powell's wife and prints the story and you take that as fact.
No, I won't be reading Woodward's book. I don't trust guys that write books to sell during times like this. On their best day, they are going to write them to sell books, not cover facts.
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - Flumper Barflusterbutt - 10-11-2006
Here's another news flash BIRD, the US has been sending aid to North Korea for a long time.
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - BIRD33 - 10-11-2006
Flumper Barflusterbutt Wrote:So some guy named "Corky" interviews Colin Powell's wife and prints the story and you take that as fact.
No, I won't be reading Woodward's book. I don't trust guys that write books to sell during times like this. On their best day, they are going to write them to sell books, not cover facts.
His book is an honest account otherwise they would sue.So what would it take for you to recognize the things that were in woodwards book as facts?I don't get how you can ignore grave mistakes and lies that are detailed in a book thats excepted as fact and act like its not reality.Do you understand how insane that sounds?Good idea going with your gut instead of the facts, look where thats gotten us.
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - Flumper Barflusterbutt - 10-11-2006
Bush never said that Saddam supported Al Quaeda. He said that "like Al Quaida" Saddam supports terrorist groups that have an agenda against the United States. Wasn't it Saddam that was paying a "bounty" for anyone that sent a suicide bomber into Israel.
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - Flumper Barflusterbutt - 10-12-2006
BIRD33 Wrote:His book is an honest account otherwise they would sue.So what would it take for you to recognize the things that were in woodwards book as facts?I don't get how you can ignore grave mistakes and lies that are detailed in a book thats excepted as fact and act like its not reality.Do you understand how insane that sounds?Good idea going with your gut instead of the facts, look where thats gotten us.
Brent Scowcroft, National Security Advisor to the first George Bush and advisor to the younger Bush on intelligence, says in a statement released to the AP that Bob Woodward made up quotes in his new book, "State of Denial: Bush at War."
Brent Scowcroft Wrote:"I have spoken to Bob Woodward a number of times about a variety of subjects over the years, but I did not agree to be interviewed for his latest book. Further, there are statements in the book, directly or implicitly attributed to me, that did not and never could have come from me. I never discuss any personal conversations that I may have with President George H.W. Bush, and he never discusses with me any conversations that he has with President George W. Bush."
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - BIRD33 - 10-12-2006
Flumper Barflusterbutt Wrote:Here's another news flash BIRD, the US has been sending aid to North Korea for a long time.
In exchange for the us being able to monitor with camera's their uruanium enrichment program.Guess how many Nukes they made during that time?0.guess which president ended that program?GWB.Guess how many nukes they've made since the program ended?4-5.Feel safer everyone?
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - BIRD33 - 10-12-2006
Flumper Barflusterbutt Wrote:Bush never said that Saddam supported Al Quaeda. He said that "like Al Quaida" Saddam supports terrorist groups that have an agenda against the United States. Wasn't it Saddam that was paying a "bounty" for anyone that sent a suicide bomber into Israel.
Alqueda is a terrorist group not a nation like Iraq so comparing them like they're the same makes no sense.Saudia Arabia supports suicide bombers families just like Iraq did then.Contradiction?
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - BIRD33 - 10-12-2006
Flumper Barflusterbutt Wrote:Brent Scowcroft, National Security Advisor to the first George Bush and advisor to the younger Bush on intelligence, says in a statement released to the AP that Bob Woodward made up quotes in his new book, "State of Denial: Bush at War."
If you watched meet the press last sunday you would have heard woodward say he quoted people high up the national security ladder who spoke to scowcroft.He got his scowcrofts quotes from them.Woodwards quote was"Notice he didnt deny that he said what he said.It's a nondenial denial."
Why doesnt scowcroft sue?because woodwards publisher wouldnt be able to fend of lawsuits if they didnt fact check.
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - Flumper Barflusterbutt - 10-12-2006
BIRD33 Wrote:In exchange for the us being able to monitor with camera's their uruanium enrichment program.Guess how many Nukes they made during that time?0.guess which president ended that program?GWB.Guess how many nukes they've made since the program ended?4-5.Feel safer everyone?
Dude, we were sending them thousands of tons of food aid at least through the end of 2005.
Quote:Dec 1, 2005. The United States has delayed procuring 25,000 tons of food aid for North Korea because of questions as to whether the U.N. World Food Programme (WFP) will be able monitor its distribution.
In a statement released December 1, the State Department said the United States believes there are "serious humanitarian needs" in the Democratic Peopleâs Republic of Korea. "But we cannot continue to supply food if we cannot even minimally assure that it will reach its intended recipients," the statement said.
On August 29, Pyongyang informed the WFP that it expected all humanitarian assistance work of international organizations in the country to be terminated by the end of 2005. The North Korean government maintained that because the humanitarian situation in the country had "drastically improved" in recent years such assistance was no longer needed. WFP has informed the donor community that its distribution activities in North Korea will end in the middle of November.
On November 9, Andrew Natsios, the administrator for the U.S. Agency for International Development, which overseas humanitarian aid programs for the United States, announced that the United States would suspend its food aid to North Korea if Pyongyang forces the WFP to end its aid distribution and monitoring activities. (See related article.)
In June, the United States committed to provide 50,000 metric tons of food to North Korea through WFP; about half of it already has been delivered and distributed by the WFP. The United States has provided about 2 million tons of food aid to North Korea through the WFP since 1995.
I'm not sure what this parrot on your shoulder that keeps repeating 4-5 nukes since Clinton left office. Did you hear that on some liberal radio show?
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - Sassy - 10-12-2006
Flumper Barflusterbutt Wrote:Do you like talking to me?BIRD33 Wrote:In exchange for the us being able to monitor with camera's their uruanium enrichment program.Guess how many Nukes they made during that time?0.guess which president ended that program?GWB.Guess how many nukes they've made since the program ended?4-5.Feel safer everyone?
Dude, we were sending them thousands of tons of food aid at least through the end of 2005.
Quote:Dec 1, 2005. The United States has delayed procuring 25,000 tons of food aid for North Korea because of questions as to whether the U.N. World Food Programme (WFP) will be able monitor its distribution.
In a statement released December 1, the State Department said the United States believes there are "serious humanitarian needs" in the Democratic Peopleâs Republic of Korea. "But we cannot continue to supply food if we cannot even minimally assure that it will reach its intended recipients," the statement said.
On August 29, Pyongyang informed the WFP that it expected all humanitarian assistance work of international organizations in the country to be terminated by the end of 2005. The North Korean government maintained that because the humanitarian situation in the country had "drastically improved" in recent years such assistance was no longer needed. WFP has informed the donor community that its distribution activities in North Korea will end in the middle of November.
On November 9, Andrew Natsios, the administrator for the U.S. Agency for International Development, which overseas humanitarian aid programs for the United States, announced that the United States would suspend its food aid to North Korea if Pyongyang forces the WFP to end its aid distribution and monitoring activities. (See related article.)
In June, the United States committed to provide 50,000 metric tons of food to North Korea through WFP; about half of it already has been delivered and distributed by the WFP. The United States has provided about 2 million tons of food aid to North Korea through the WFP since 1995.
I'm not sure what this parrot on your shoulder that keeps repeating 4-5 nukes since Clinton left office. Did you hear that on some liberal radio show?
When do you think artificial intelligence will replace lawyers?
Is that a fact. What is
on
like on .
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - BIRD33 - 10-12-2006
Flumper Barflusterbutt Wrote:Dude, we were sending them thousands of tons of food aid at least through the end of 2005.
I'm not sure what this parrot on your shoulder that keeps repeating 4-5 nukes since Clinton left office. Did you hear that on some liberal radio show?
Its a fact.Do you read the papers?
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - Sassy - 10-12-2006
BIRD33 Wrote:I think you mean "it's" or "it is" not "its". Is it a logical fact or something you know from the senses?I readFlumper Barflusterbutt Wrote:Dude, we were sending them thousands of tons of food aid at least through the end of 2005.
I'm not sure what this parrot on your shoulder that keeps repeating 4-5 nukes since Clinton left office. Did you hear that on some liberal radio show?
Its a fact.Do you read the papers?
papers?
from time to time.
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - Flumper Barflusterbutt - 10-12-2006
BIRD33 Wrote:If you watched meet the press last sunday you would have heard woodward say he quoted people high up the national security ladder who spoke to scowcroft.He got his scowcrofts quotes from them.Woodwards quote was"Notice he didnt deny that he said what he said.It's a nondenial denial."
Why doesnt scowcroft sue?because woodwards publisher wouldnt be able to fend of lawsuits if they didnt fact check.
So, Woodward interviewed people that heard from someone things that Scowcroft said? Great fact trail.
People aren't suing because its too ridiculous to argue. Getting facts from people that talk to people's wives, or that talk to a girlfriend of an aid that heard something that was said in a meeting is hardly "facts".
Woodward got rich off of Watergate, and he's trying to get rich again. That's just the way it works. You quote private sources and its a little tough to deny that they happened. Its like someone saying that an alien visited them during the night and told them how the pyramids were built. Its easier to just leave the nut alone than try to discredit him.
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - Flumper Barflusterbutt - 10-12-2006
BIRD33 Wrote:Its a fact.Do you read the papers?
I'm not denying whether its a fact or not, just wonder why you think its so important to keep brining it up. The US has developed hundreds of nuclear warheads since Hoover was president. Is there any corelation to that? No. Its just progress.
How long before shit gets outta control with North Korea? - Flumper Barflusterbutt - 10-12-2006
BIRD33 Wrote:Its a fact.Do you read the papers?
The fact is that we've been sending aid to North Korea for years. Before Bush and before Clinton. We don't send that aid in exchange for monitoring their nuclear enrichment program. We send it in exchange for monitoring that they are giving the food to the people that need it.
Now tell me about those 4 or 5 nukes that they built in the last few years.